Normal 40: The Podcast
Episode 9 - Curiosity (Transcript)
Lon Stroschein: [00:00:00] Hi, my name is Lon Stroschein, founder of the Normal 40. I am so glad you are here. If you're here, it's not by accident. Dude, you're searching. And I get it because I've been there. In February 2022 after 14 years, I left my job as a public company executive, and I left without a resume. I left without a bunch of jobs lined up, and I left without being independently wealthy. But I went in search of something more. I went in search of finding out exactly who it is I was capable of being. And I've learned that my mission in life is to inspire 1000 dudes to go chase their same journey. I am so glad you're here. I'm so glad you found this podcast, because here we're going to keep it real. We're going to keep it raw, and there are going to be thousands of dudes just like you who can't wait to hear what we talk about next. Dude, thanks for being here. I can't wait to see you along the normal 40 highway.
Adam Eaton: [00:01:05] Hi. Welcome back to Normal 40, the podcast. My name is Adam. I will be again your copilot on this journey. Happy to be joined by the founder of Normal 40, the lead pilot, a dude you need to know, Mr. Lon Stroschein. Lon, how are you doing my friend?
Lon Stroschein: [00:01:23] Oh, man, I'm doing so good. I love the feedback we've been getting from the little snippet, the ramble we put out there. The raw ramble, man, It's been pretty fun.
Adam Eaton: [00:01:38] Yeah, it was a good little glimpse down memory lane. I mean, the one thing I love about working with Lon is he remembers everything. He writes everything down. He's meticulous in his process. And I love that you have that ability to go back and sort of reexamine where you were, because I think that's so important. I think everyone looks at where they are today. But going back and kind of hearing myself and hearing you and I talk and the seeds of what was born out of that conversation and listening back, I certainly had some memories kind of dredge back up. I can sort of take myself back to that moment in time and how I was feeling and how that day was going just in general. So it was definitely a good experience Lon. I'm glad you had the ability to provide that. And hopefully everybody else out there really enjoyed that conversation as well. And I know we're going to spend some more time on this episode talking more kind of behind the scenes of what was going through my mind that day, what's happened since then. I'd love to hear what was going through your mind that day and how you think that journey is gone. So kind just two dudes just open it up to each other about their feelings, about a situation, a common bond that they share. Probably not something you do every day with somebody. But I think for me, Lon, this is the hallmark of what normal 40 looks like. It's being vulnerable. It's opening up. It's talking to a fellow dude about how you're feeling and being okay and being comfortable in your skin. So I appreciate you for keeping all this stuff for us and giving us this opportunity to stroll back down. And I can't wait to open up the feelings a little bit more and talk more about where you and I are today.
Lon Stroschein: [00:03:09] Oh man, that's perfect. I feel like every podcast we've done has felt like a risk. Like we go into it and you and I Adam, we don't spend a lot of time rehearsing. In fact, we did the entire last podcast and you had no idea when you showed up, that's what we were going to do is drop in an old episode. And I feel like every one of them is a risk, you know, going in and like right now we're just kicking off this podcast and I feel like this is a little bit of a risk to go back and try to channel that. But it's so important. The reason I want to take this risk is because I'm trying to once again make it obvious that what you go through. If you're listening to this podcast and you've listened to any podcast, you're going through something, you're on a journey. It's a journey you didn't ask for. It's a journey you don't feel prepared for, but you're on one and so you're here and you're wondering what is normal? Why am I like this? Why do I feel so alone? My purpose is to help you understand you're not alone. And to help you understand that the people who look like they've got a totally figured out, the people who have it all packaged, it's all put together. It's all just manicured. Is just a facade.
[00:04:29] If you think I'm a dude who's got it all figured out, or certainly that I had it all figured out back in August. No, no, absolutely not. I'm just channeling the courage, not the confidence. I'm channeling the courage to show up, take a risk, and share a story. And Adam, that's why I felt like just sharing your story. I mean, you're a dude who's shown up every single episode. It was your push that made the podcast. It was in the back of my mind that someday I would do it. But it was your showing up to say, [] dude, I can do this and I want to do it and I want to help and I want to help you. You were saying this to me and it was because of that that led to this. We didn't have it figured out. We didn't know what would go. We didn't have the podcast named. We just said, Let's give it a whirl, let's take the risk, let's channel the courage and go. And right down to this episode. That's exactly what we're doing here, man.
Adam Eaton: [00:05:24] It's funny you say risk. And as you were saying that, Lon, what I was thinking about and where I am now versus maybe where I was when I first pecked out that email that ended up in your inbox is now I say to myself, it's a risk if I don't share this information, right? It's a risk to myself and not being true to who I am and true to my creativity. Six months ago, I would have been a risk for me to be vulnerable and have these conversations and talk about these things. But now it's almost a risk to not do that because I feel like I've grown and I've got opportunities to share some insight with individuals. It's a risk to not do that. It's a risk to not be your true, authentic self. And I think that's what I've learned a little bit through this journey is, it's okay to be who you are. It's okay to be where your feet are and feel what you're feeling. And so to me, the risk comes with almost not sharing it, with keeping it inside, with not giving the ability to have individuals understand maybe that perspective. So I think that's what I've learned and kind of a high level of these last six months is that risk quotient has changed for me, right? It was a risk of, hey, I don't really want to talk about myself to the risk of, man, I've got to get this off my chest. I got things I want to talk about.
[00:06:35] And that's what the evolution, at least for this show has been for me personally. Not only has it been an opportunity to talk about some really interesting topics and explore some things that I know are impacting a lot of folks out there. Selfishly, though, it's given me an opportunity to also get that negotiated in my own head. And now to the point where this doesn't feel like a risk. It feels like a risk if we don't have this conversation. It feels like a risk if I keep this all inside. And I think that's been the beauty of this journey for me personally. And I hope that other people out there are experiencing that same thing as well. I hope other people are being inspired by that same concept because I think that's the crux of what normal 40 is and the way you named it. It's normal to feel these things and I'm damn glad I'm starting to feel more and more normal as our process has gone on Lon.
Lon Stroschein: [00:07:23] You and I have talked, Adam, about this community that we're creating a Normal 40 and there's a million ways in. I've heard a million stories. A million stories from some of the most articulate, bright, fun, entertaining, impressive people from around the world, but especially in North America. And what I've realized is there might be a million ways in, but there's only one way out. There's only one way out to get back that feeling that we had at one point. And how do we get that back? And it's like somewhere along the way we have forgotten what we're good at. We have forgotten what we love. We have forgotten what we want to do. And we've been shaped to tolerate what somebody else needs us to do. And it's so fascinating to go back and relive these again and again. Every day I get to relive somebody else's beginning, the very beginning. That conversation that people heard of you last week, I get to do that every day. And it's so fascinating because the stories are the same. But here's one thing that I would love your feedback on. So many dudes stuck. You talked about it. You talked about in that last video that you stalked me for weeks and that you were scared to reach out and you'd stacked. And then you went to my website and you kept stalking. And finally something happened to where you reached out, but you didn't. I went back and looked. You didn't actually comment on your first email to me.
[00:09:01] Let me start there. Your first email to me was in June, and it said, I saw your recent LinkedIn post and I read your bio. It reads as if I wrote it myself. What do I do next? The next day I wrote back and said, Well, Adam, you start by asking one tricky question. Do I have clarity on what it is I really want? You went radio silent for a month before you finally came back around and said, I know what I want, I want to help. I've got a plan. And my whole point is. So many dudes wait and they stalk to use your term. They watch and they look and they start to feel themselves dreaming. And they know that they're not dreaming the way they used to. I'm imagining that that's what you're feeling. And I want you to tell me, what is it in that month from when you sent I'm listening, what can I do to I showed you back, said, Do you know what you want? Waited a month. Can you go back to that? Can you share with me? What were you feeling in that moment when you sent me an email? You'd sent me an email. I had sent one back and you had not commented like or shown up at all on anything I've ever posted or done. What were you feeling in that time?
Adam Eaton: [00:10:17] Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this on the show. I didn't comment on any post because I wanted anonymity. I didn't want anyone to see that I had commented on a post like that. A lot of my professional network, our folks that I've worked with, either current or in the past and you talk about putting that facade up. I didn't want anyone to read a comment on a post like that and go, What's that about? Like, why is he doing that? So I was trying to to remain anonymous. And honestly, if I'm being direct with you Lon, my first initial inquiry to you was in my mind I was thinking, this guy is full of shit. What is he really about? What is this Normal 40? What is this thing he's doing? And I kind of want to almost see if you were real. Like, would you respond? What would you say back to me? And honestly, I was expecting a sales pitch. I was expecting you were going to write back with. Hey, that's a great question, Adam for $199 an hour, I can tell you more about. So I was expecting a cynical response back is what I was looking for. And then when you didn't do that, it took me back a second and I thought to myself, wait, this is interesting.
[00:11:23] Like he didn't try to sell me anything. He's not like pointing me to a book I have to buy. He's not giving me all this mumbo jumbo. He's asking me a question. And it was something I wasn't prepared to answer because I hadn't thought that far ahead. I was really just kind of pressure testing to figure out who this guy was and what he was about. But after you asked that question, you know, it really gave me an opportunity to sit back and say, what is it that I'm trying to do? What do I need clarity on? And honestly, what I needed to do in that month Lon is give myself permission to be honest, is give myself the permission to say, I'm going to write back and I'm going to be honest about what it is that I have this clarity about or what it is I'm seeking. Because I hadn't shared that before. I hadn't shared that with anybody. And I think it took me some time to kind of build up that trust and knowing that, hey, this guy might be a little different, this whole thing might be a little bit different. This isn't what I thought it might be.
[00:12:18] So I really took that 30 day sabbatical to build up the courage to say, I'm going to be honest about this. I'm going to respond back honestly and see where it takes me. And only because as I continue to read your stuff, I thought more and more about, Man, this is something that's really resonating with me and maybe it's time I owe it to myself to be honest. So that 30 days was a self permission to continue to sort of feel the things I was feeling and have the thoughts I was going through before I really wrote back to you because I think that's I owed myself that permission. And we talked about this on some of those episodes that I've done so far. It's really hard to give yourself permission. And it took me about 30 days before I finally said, You know what, screw it, I'm going to do this. I'm going to write back. I'm going to be vulnerable. And let's see where this takes me for the first time. And that's sort of what little bit permeating my thoughts for that 30 day cycle that you and I weren't connected, but yet we're connected.
Lon Stroschein: [00:13:19] Man. Thanks for sharing that. I want to stay on this for a minute. I want to read after the 30 days passed and you finally did reply. I'm going to read what you wrote back. You said, Hi Lon, I actually do have the clarity. And that clarity is this. I want to help. I want to be part of the solution and the process for others who feel like I feel, think how I've thought and struggle how I've struggled. But I think the question isn't being asked here. I think the question that isn't being asked here is what's missing. I'll tell you what's missing. It's a support system. It's listening to others and hearing their stories and recognizing that they aren't alone. And that's what you're doing at Normal 40. And I want to be a part of it. I got that. And I'm like, Huh? Because guess what? I like you. I was sizing. Yeah, I was sizing you up. You have to be ready for a Normal 40, man. Part of stocking, showing up, reading, feeling, wondering, that is starting. And I had to figure out where you at because here's what happens there's a couple of things that can happen. You can read one or two posts and get frustrated and [queef] quit out. And that happens. That's probably happened thousands and thousands of times. And I'll never know. I will never know. But then there's the next dude who keeps watching, keep stalking, keeps showing up and eventually reaches out.
[00:14:53] Now I've got to decide at that point. I try to get back to every single person and I think I'm doing pretty well. But my response is, I'll get on a call with you of course. I'll do whatever you need. I'm [a dude] in your corner. But it's also to push to understand if you're really ready. You have to be ready for Normal 40. It's got to be more than a wish. It's got to be more than a thought. It's got to be a conviction. It's becoming whole. It's becoming a conviction. And you said it earlier in this conversation. When it gets to the point where it's no longer what if I do, but it's starting to land on what if I don't? Shit man. What if I don't do something about this? What if I don't show up. When it gets there, then I know you're ready. Then I can talk about, Hey, here's how I can help. But until then, no way. It does no good. Normal 40 is about being ready. And dude, when you shut me this note back, like, All right, this cat's ready. Let's get on a call. Let's see where he's at. Let's see what he's got going on. And that's where the conversation went, that very quickly after two weeks later led to the call that if you listen to the last podcast, you get to hear in real time. That's the first time Adam and I had ever communicated. This is really important. And this is going to be a little bit self serving, but it's super important.
[00:16:18] So I chalk myself up as a dude who shows up to LinkedIn and I put it out there and guess what? Now you are too. You on last podcast in this podcast are really becoming a dude who's out there. And you communicated to me in the very first phone call and then on this podcast that you stalked and you hung around and you didn't comment because you didn't feel like you could. You didn't feel like it was safe. Well, guess what? Now your name is on a podcast. It's on a podcast about dudes and feelings. And hey, by the way, you might want to make a change in your life that impacts how you're living today. Your name's on that now. It's out there. This podcast is going to really put it out there. I want to know how your life has changed when you decided, I'm going to get involved and I'm going to put my name on it and I'm going to take the risk. Like I said, off the top, this is a conversation about risk. And at some point you said, I'm going to take the risk of putting my name on a podcast. I'm going to put my name on a post, I'm going to make a comment. I want to know how your life has changed and if it's better or worse since you said, I'm going to put my name on this.
Adam Eaton: [00:17:33] Yeah, I would say that the change is for the better. Just to answer the question quickly, because one of the things that I learned about myself throughout the journey before I got into your inbox was me understanding who I was and me being comfortable in my own skin with that. And I recognized some things that had changed for me, some things that I was feeling, particularly as it relates to being a leader of people and having vulnerabilities as a male dominated profession at times and not having outlets to be able to share some of the things that I was thinking about. And when your group came about and your post came about, it gave me that first initial permission to say, Hey, I want to do that. And I knew I did. I knew that as I've talked to some people throughout my life, I knew a lot of folks were having the same feeling. And I just had this sense of I want to be a leader, I want to be someone I think you call it a guide or you call it the lantern. I know some of the terms you use. I want to be one of those people who's walking around with a lantern, who is showing other individuals it's okay to feel this way. So for me it's been a really good change because I've always had that natural inclination and I was just suppressing it. I was hiding it. I was acting like it wasn't there. I was masking it. I was doing all sorts of things that really led me to not be truly authentic with who I am and how I lead teams and how I work from a day to day perspective.
[00:19:01] So now being a part of that group where other people can reach out to me and have reached out and said, Hey, thanks for sharing that. Hey, thanks for showing up. Hey, thanks for doing this. It's been a great opportunity for me Lon. And it's such a positive change that it's reframed a little bit of my mind. I try to give the analogy this way. Imagine, you've got a cough, right? You've got a nagging cough, but you always suppress it. You never cough. You won't do it. You just won't let that noise come out. And every time you think you're going to cough, you suppress it more and more and more and more. And then all of a sudden one day, finally the cough comes out and that weight just lifts off your shoulder. You just feel so much better because you've got that clarity. You've got that off your chest. That's how I feel. I feel like for for such a long period of time, I didn't let that information or that side of me be shown. And now that it's free and it's out there and people can hear it, I'm not ashamed of it. And I've been blown away by some of the people who have seen and heard it and reached out and said, man, this is great. People that I've known and be like, this is great. Let's talk about this, because I've been feeling this way, too.
[00:20:11] So for me, it's very freeing that I've had the opportunity to let that become part of who I am and so much so that I'm proud to represent that factor, that side and be a part of that journey. And I look and I think to myself, I don't know how much longer I could have gone without doing that. And I wonder, man, what would have happened if I just continued to suppress this and not use it. So for me, it's been nothing but a great change. It's brought a lot of great contacts and people into my life that I've had a chance to talk to. Some people have gotten to know very intimately, kind of like yourself. Others that I've had some surface level conversations with. But [] for me Lon, it's been a huge favorable moment in my life, so much so that I look at the same thing you just said. I don't know where I would be if I didn't do it. And I'm almost scared to think through, man, what took me so long? And what did I miss along the way by not maybe stepping on this journey earlier.
Lon Stroschein: [00:21:14] You asked me a question in a few of our earlier podcasts. It's such a good question. I want to ask it back at you. And that is, me a year ago, you four and five months ago, you couldn't associate with a post that talked about how you weren't quite as happy or satisfied or fulfilled with your work as you used to be, or you want to be. You couldn't do that. You couldn't put your DNA on it. I couldn't of a year ago. You couldn't have four and five months ago. Now both you and I are talking about it. And every day I get I get messages in my inbox and scheduled calls from people I've never heard of. I didn't know we were I was connected to, and I take every one of them and I get on a call and they all tell me that they're not ready. They're not ready to put their DNA on something. They're not ready to let people know how they're feeling, because it's a risk. It's too big a risk to share that I've got a dream. I've got a dream that's bigger than who I am today. I've got a dream that's becoming a plan. I'm feeling inspired to do something else. They're not ready. That feels like a risk. My question is, what's the myth in that? What's the myth in feeling like you can't post? What's the myth in that if you actually do, like, comment and get involved?
[00:22:50] I think for me, the myth for my thinking was someone's going to see this and it's going to put everything I have in jeopardy. My current employer might see this, my boss might see this, somebody who works for me might see this. And all of a sudden they're going to go, well, Adam's unhappy. We're going to let him go. We're going to do cutbacks, or he's clearly not performing. They're going to take one situation, put other things to it, and draw conclusions. And I think that for me was I assumed as soon as you hit the send button on LinkedIn, that everybody in your life is going to read this like it's on the front page of the newspaper. And that's such a myth. That is such a myth that everyone out there is going to see what you're writing. And I took it to the extreme. I said, Man, someone's going to read this. They're going to say, Well, look at this information here. Well, we're going to do this. Well, this is what's going to happen. And I created a whole soap opera. I created an All My Children episode Lon about what I thought was going to happen by just writing this one post. And it turns out none of that happened. None of that happened. I don't know that anybody from my current work or anybody in my current sphere even understands or knows I'm writing on these things or talking on these things.
[00:23:59] But here's what I will tell you. And I did tell people at my current work, and here's why I did that. And here's another myth that I've experienced that I wonder if other people are experiencing as well. Recognizing a change in yourself, recognizing that maybe you are a little bit different doesn't mean that you need to leave your current job, doesn't mean you need to leave your current profession. This isn't like a pink slip as soon as you say this that I've got to go from this profession. For some of you it might be that way. But that's not an absolute for everybody. And what I found Lon since I've been on this journey is in my mind, I'm actually a better leader, I'm a better employee, I'm a better boss, if you will, whatever word you want to use. I've found things that I've done better because I've tapped into that. Now, perhaps the genre of my work doesn't attract me like it once did, doesn't interest or inspire me as it once did. But that doesn't mean that there still aren't things that I can do to continue to be productive and be closer to who I am through Normal 40. I think that's another big myth is when you say to yourself, Hey, I'm on this Normal 40 path, that means you're saying to yourself, my career is done. I've got to get out of here. It's done, it's over with. It does not have to be.
[00:25:13] For me, I feel like I'm a better leader. I think I'm better at what it is that I do. I think my team has even told me in such a way that they've appreciated the way that I've led. Because now that I have that vulnerability, I can ask people, my team, Hey, how are you feeling? Give me some insight to you And there's been a much more connective point. So I think that there's two myths there. One, that as soon as you hit send on that message that the entire professional world is going to get an automatic text message saying, well, guess what Adam just posted on LinkedIn. And that's such a myth. That's us letting our own fears, our own vulnerabilities take over. But two, it doesn't mean that you can't continue to evolve who you are. And for me, I've evolved in a manner that I think actually has allowed me to be even better at my role. And as time goes on, I'll decide whether that's still the right fit for me or there are things that I want to do outside of that. But it's exponentially made me better at what I do because now I'm leading with an authenticity that maybe I didn't do before. And for me that might be what Normal 40 is about.
[00:26:17] For me is it's taught me how to be me. It's taught me it's okay to be who I am. For some people, it may teach them it's okay to try something different. It may teach them it's okay to do something that's a passion. But for me, it's taught me it's okay to be me. And the beauty of being me is there's a whole world of opportunities available Lon. And when those times come and I say, Hey me, Is this over here now? Now I have that self confidence and now I have that gusto, if you will, to say I'm going to I'm going to chase that down. And when when that time comes, I know I'll be ready for it. But it doesn't mean you have to be ready for it on day one just because you decide you're going to you're going to respond to Lon's post. The biggest myth overall is it doesn't happen that quickly. And it'll never happen in a manner that works on whatever truncated timeline you think. It happens when it's right. It happens when it's ready, not when you put it on a calendar. And I think that's the myth that I've learned, is that there are so many different ways that this takes shape. But I'm in control of that and my journey is in control of that. And if I keep showing up at some point, I'll figure out what that all looks like.
Lon Stroschein: [00:27:32] Such a great point. Dudes who finally do post and comment and like who were going through exactly what you just described, their feeling anxiety about who is going to see it and it was always leading to something negative. Every time in their mind it was taking them to a place that only had a bad outcome. Every time, their boss would find out that get fired, their friends would find out and think they weren't as successful as they thought. Every possible scenario in their mind led to a bad outcome. Yet everybody who's reached out to me and said, after I did it Lon, I felt better. And you just described that perfectly. We don't need to spend any more time on that. It's a relief. It's that first olive out of the jar. It's like, Okay okay, but two, they've all come back and said, My life is so much better for the conversations and the connections and the opportunities it's brought to me. It actually has been, instead of being this negative, because that's how our mind is wired to think that if you express that, you're not anything but perfectly happy that somehow the house of cards is going to fall to the ground and that's not the case.
[00:28:44] So, one thing I'd love to put out there is just a challenge to people. When you're feeling compelled to respond, whether it's to my post or Adam's post or anyone else, dude, know who you are and muster the courage to stand in it. And I did an entire honors college speech on that line. And I told these graduates the best of the best in the graduating university. And I said, look you're the best of the best. The hardest thing you will do in your whole life is again and again. It's not a one time thing. It's not a one time thing. It's an often thing. And you'll do it once or twice. But again and again and again, you have to know who you are and muster the courage to stand in it. Because if you only do the first half, you know who you are and you don't do anything about it. That is horrible. Or if you don't know who you are and you try to do things about it, that's just as bad. You're going down the wrong path. So to know who you are and by the way, if something you read is eliciting something from you, that's grounding you in who you are then you should do something about that. Knowing who you are and having the courage to do things about having the courage to stand in it. And I think that's so wonderfully important. I want to go back and maybe you don't want to answer this. What were you feeling before you even sent me that first email? You'd been stalking? Can you put into your own words what you were feeling before you finally said, Piss on it. I'm going to reach out to this guy.
[00:30:32] Yeah, I think I recognized and I think I shared this on an episode. So I'll do this quickly again for those who have heard it before. I probably recognized in my journey Lon, maybe 5 to 7 years before I obviously got to the point where I sent you an email that I had changed. I just didn't realize I had changed because I did what I call masking. I was masking it. So I had a job. I had a great opportunity. And I just wasn't feeling the leadership at that time. The role wasn't connecting with me. But I said to myself, Hey, you know what? This is because I don't like where I live. I want to move. I had moved away from my childhood home, so I was not in a familiar setting for me. And I said to myself, you know what this is really about? I need to get back closer to home. So instead of me recognizing those things at that moment in time and looking back at it now I know full well what that was. But back then, seven years ago, Adam said, Well, I just need to move. I need to get out of here. So guess what? I moved on to something different. I get a new role, I move back to closer to home, and I'm doing another role now. And that's going okay for a little bit. And then I'm like, You know what? I really don't like my boss. I just really don't like the leadership. I don't like this. I'm going to try something different.
[00:31:44] And I kept doing all these little changes Lon thinking that everything that was "wrong with me." And I put that in air quotes for those who are listening on audio, everything that was wrong with me was all these other external factors. And it wasn't until really recently, probably about five months before I sent you that note that I finally looked in the mirror and said, You know what, I've changed. This isn't about the place I live. This isn't about the name on the building I go to everyday for work. This isn't about the person who's leading my team that I'm working on. This is about me. And I think again for where I was, I said to myself, okay, I can't share this with anybody. I got a wife, I have two kids, we have a mortgage, we have a car payment. My daughter is going to be in college in three years. I've got to pay for books and tuition and room and board. I have no time for this. I have no time for these feelings and these emotions. But I recognized how it was really eating at me. And I found myself digesting more and more comments about things like that, which is ironically, I think Lon I don't even really know to this day how you popped up in my feed. I don't know who you and I were connected to in common on LinkedIn. But one day you just popped up in my feed and I think it's probably because I had been doing some searching. I've been looking around at certain things on LinkedIn. And the algorithms just put our energies together on that one. And I think that's really where I was at was a crossroads of me recognizing, okay, this is different. I've got to try something different. But having no idea what the first step look like, having no idea how to even make that happen. And there you were, somebody who appeared to have a common trait with what I was feeling, somebody who appeared to have other individuals who are also talking with you about the same thing. You appear to have a blueprint for how it happened for you and the things you learned. And I said to myself, okay, like, I've been feeling these things. Here's this person who may just have an answer to what it is that I'm seeking. And at the time, I don't think I knew what I was seeking. But for me, it was about I'd recognize that things had changed for me. And I had tried so hard for so many years to just assign that change to something else. It wasn't me. It was the city. It was the company. It was the day of the week. It was, I didn't like the the [401k], it was everything but me. And so that was a really hard moment to finally sit down one day and look in the mirror and be like, Hey, dude, guess what? It's you. It's not the 401k. It's not the name on the outside of the building. It's not the asshole boss you have. It's really you.
[00:34:19] And that was a vulnerable moment that I had to come to grips with. And I think it took me another like three or four months before I could even come to grips with saying, it's okay that I have changed because everywhere around you, when you when you've conditioned yourself to be the person that I was, I wasn't allowed to have vulnerability. I wasn't allowed to do that. I was the breadwinner. I make the money right. I bring it home for the kids and the wife and we have all these great things and I have these team of people who look up to me and I'm supposed to lead them and how can I lead if I have doubt like I'm supposed to be the one with all the answers and now I have no answers. And so all that stuff just continued to to flush through my head day in and day out. And I think I tried for a long time to quell it. And at some point, the noise gets too loud and your post became that sounding board where all of a sudden that noise was staring me right back in the face. And I thought to myself, here's somebody that maybe has something that I need to know about. And those were the emotions leading up to that first time, I decided to pull the keyboard out and start packing away at some letters on it to you.
Lon Stroschein: [00:35:25] I hear that all the time. I hear all the time. I have no idea how you ended up in my feed. And the only way I hear that is eventually means we're on a call. So a lot happens between whatever the algorithm is and ideally, hopefully it's a share like that somebody feels vulnerable enough to do and it and it finds him. Adam I went back and I tried to find what I expect was the post that might have jarred you into. All right, I got to reach out to this dude and see what's going on. And it's one of two. It's one of two. It was either the one I wrote a post about the day I moved my daughter to college, and that was one. But I don't think it was that one. I think it was one that I titled You Are Ready. And it's short. It's like you're ready. You were ready a year ago, but you didn't trust yourself. You have a plan, a fire and a gut and dreamed a chase and you're ready. You've talked to your spouse, you've talked to a friend, and you've felt the rush. And you're ready. You've painted the dream and felt a call. But you've made the excuses even though you're ready. You think tomorrow it'll be easier, you believe tomorrow holds more certainty and that time is on your side, but you are wrong. One more bonus. One more raise, one more set of options. One more milestone at work. One more contribution to my 401k. One more, one more, one more. You are ready. And I got a lot because we've done the math. We've talked about it. I talked about on a previous podcast about the spreadsheet. I had a freaking spreadsheet. And 's dudes right now smiling. They know they've got a spreadsheet, the spreadsheet that says, Here's how old I am, here's how long I want to work, here's how much I have, here's how much I can save, here's how much I'm going to make on my existing investments, here's when I can retire, here's my number. And every time you have a spreadsheet, that means you have a one more, one more, one more, one more. And then you've got to reconcile that. And it's hard. So I appreciate it.
[00:37:29] And I want to talk about what I call the box, and we'll probably do a whole podcast on the box at some point, but usually dudes come to me when they've worked themselves into a box and there's four walls to the box. And by the way, it's a box that they built intentionally and the walls of the the box, however, that they intentionally built have become kind of this, now the walls that hold them down. And one wall is probably how easy it is to do the job you have. You know it. You survived it. You can do it, you've had it. You know the people. And that's a wall. I mean that you wanted to get there. You wanted your job to somehow get a little bit easier. But it's become a wall. It's become something you'd have to give up as at ease. We'd have to give up a W2 more than likely. If you're going to start your own business, you've got to give up that addiction to W2. And it is an addiction. And that's okay. I don't mean it in the negative sense. It's okay to get paid for what you do, but it is something that prevents you from making it easy to just jump. The other one is image and title and reputation and association and all of those things that that we've talked about. That's a wall. That's a wall you've got to knock down. You've got to get through. In the last is just the confidence and the safety and the lack of risk to just keep doing what you're doing. And that, too, is a wall. And I'd be curious to know as you think about those four walls for you and as you think about the next three years of your life, which of those walls are you going to go about knocking down?
Adam Eaton: [00:39:21] Well, that's a great question. I think honestly for me Lon, I have less concern about the the ego and the the optic wall that you talked about. And that's not one. I'm comfortable in my own skin. I'm comfortable saying I do things a little bit differently. I'm comfortable being a little bit different. And that's just always been a bit of my DNA. So the ego side of it, the optic side of it for me that that's "an easy one". I think the two hard ones that you talked about are that security of having a W2 is a big one. And the security and the safety of knowing that you have this dedicated income that's going to help your family, continue forward for the next couple of years. I think those are the two walls that are probably the biggest two that I have to figure out ways to knock down at some point in time, because I think those are the ones that you're just conditioned to say that's what your role is. Your role is you're the head of the household. You bring home the paychecks and you afford the orthodontic bills for the kid. And you afford the used car for the 16 year old who's on deck and the tuition for the school and the money for the little league travel team that the kid wants to be on. And the great Christmas tree that everybody wants. That to me is the ability for me to continue to support my family. I think the other thing I would share Lon in a vulnerable moment, one of the things that has certainly impacted me and I don't think I've even shared this really with you a ton is a lot of it is my upbringing Lon. I grew up in a household where I was basically single parent. My biological dad wasn't a part of my life, left when I was as an infant, never met him again, never saw him again. He could walk in this room right now, and I wouldn't know who he was. And that's something I've always just understood. And so I saw my mom raise me and my sister and that was my family unit. And so I've always had just a small, close knit family. And for me, it's always been about those people are the most important in my life.
[00:41:33] There's a loyalty factor there for me because I didn't have a lot growing up. And so when I got to the point where I was able to make money and I got married and we had kids, I looked at that and said, okay, my upbringing was such that I felt like there were struggle and there were struggle because I didn't have that person in my life that was there to protect and to provide for us. So dammit, I'm not going to do that to my own kids. There's an element of the way that I thought through that just psychologically where I've said to myself, I'm going to do it differently than how it happened for me. And I think that's probably the biggest wall I need to knock down Lon is getting over that myth and that creed that I said to myself is I'm not going to let my kids be raised the way I was. And by no means I had a very nice childhood. My mother was a fantastic mom, my sister was great. I had the grandparents around that took care of me, very loving, supportive household. But we certainly struggled.
[00:42:31] And I said to myself, I'm not going to let my kids struggle like that. I'm going to be the dad that I didn't get to have in my life. And I'm going to do all the things that that dad is supposed to be. So that's probably the biggest thing that as I think about the change I need to make Lon is being okay saying that doesn't mean I have all of the money in the world to buy my kids everything. That's not what Dad really is about. Dad is about some of these other items here. And in some respects I've had to re-prioritize as I've gotten older, as my kids have gotten older, and what it really means to be dad, what it really means to be good dad, good husband. And I think that's probably the biggest wall from a box perspective, and that's that safety, security, while you talk about that, is going to take the biggest, heaviest, largest sledgehammer to try to bring and topple to the ground just because of the way that I've always thought about my life in the way that I was raised and how that formed out, who I was and who I am today.
Lon Stroschein: [00:43:29] So good man. One of the things you and I have never talked about and it's actually one of the very first documents I created when going through the Normal 40 and you just nailed one piece of it. I boil the life into into four stages in the first. The first is your inheritance. And it's all of the things that happen to you, not because of you or not for you, you're just where you were born in the circumstances you're born into. And in your case, you just articulated the life you were born into and the story about your dad and the story of your mom and all of her sacrifice and sister and you didn't do anything to deserve that. And you didn't do anything to earn it. But it does represent the building blocks of who you are. And some people have a wonderful inheritance. Wonderful. And some people have a horseshit inheritance. Horrible, traumatic, devastating, but everyone has the opportunity to use them for the better.
Lon Stroschein: [00:44:38] And that's the second step. That's what I call the endowment. The endowment phase is the next roughly 30 years of your life, 20 years your life. And it's how you use that. It's the decisions you make for yourself. It's do you go to college? Do you get good grades? Do you get bad grades? Do you date? Do you get a job? Do you take out student loans? What do you major in? Then your first job, then you put in the hours. It's all the decisions you make to where basically you are in your life up to this point. And then the last phase, of course, is a legacy phase. We'll talk about at some point. But usually it's in your inheritance phase that you discover the things that are the driver for you, the feelings to chase and the feelings to avoid. They tend to come about in your inheritance phase. And I'd be curious if you could put into words or emotions, what are the things that drive you?
[00:45:40] Wow. I mean, I think for me, going back to my childhood, my upbringing, I've got some cousins and aunts and uncles and, again we're not a family that comes from much. I am still to this day the only member of my family to actually even go to college, let alone graduate twice with both a bachelor's degree and a master's degree. So for me, I've always been motivated by doing and accomplishing the things people don't think I can do and accomplish, doing the things that that people don't think I can do. And I say this to my wife all the time and it's funny, sometimes she laughs at me and calls me dramatic, but I always say to her, I'm not supposed to be here. Everything was set up for me not to be where I am right now. I could have easily just said, Hey, I'm going to drop out of school and I'm going to maybe do this and I'm going to get involved in this. And I've always said to myself, like, I'm not supposed to be here. Everything was set up for me to be someplace different and to maybe have a whole different existence.
[00:46:40] But because I wanted to prove everybody wrong, I wanted to prove everybody that I could do that. I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. And that's always been the driver, I guess, in terms of how I've gotten to where I've gotten to even in my career Lon. I got my first job. And it's a quick funny story. But my first job out of college. I was told I was going to get this job and I was waiting for it. And it was supposed to be coming any day now. And literally the day I was actually getting married. So the actual literal day of my wedding with my wife that morning, the guy calls me and says, Hey, man, I'm sorry, unfortunately you're not going to get this job. I try to make it work. It didn't happen. And I got turned down and I was so mad. I was so bitter. I got married having zero jobs, zero income. No future, going on a honeymoon. And we're on a beautiful beach in Jamaica. And I'm looking at my wife going, How am I ever going to afford to support us? I don't even have a job at this point. What am I going to do? And I got back and that company called me back and said, Hey, just kidding. We found something for you. And because I needed something, I took it. But I was so bitter Lon that I said to myself, I'm going to work my ass off to prove to these people that they made a mistake not hiring me. And within a year I'd been promoted twice. I'd gotten salary increases. Within three years, I had moved up to a higher position. And it's always because it's been about proving other people wrong for me and proving that I can do something. And that's really been the biggest motivator for me in my life, is proving that I can do this, that I can achieve what everyone thinks, maybe I can't or couldn't or shouldn't, or that I can get to a level that I felt like maybe wasn't attainable.
Adam Eaton: [00:48:21] And I think that's been a gift and a curse because then you get to that level and then you turn around, you're like, well, now what? When do I stop climbing? When do I say I've accomplished what I've accomplished? And that's another factor that led me to Normal 40 was I was like, Well, okay, I've done all these great things, but what if I done? What have I really accomplished? Yes, I was great at my company and now the CEO has a bigger boat. But what have I accomplished? What have I done? What's my mark been? And always for me, it's been people that I've worked with that have stayed in touch with me and said, Hey, I'm now here because you taught me this, I learned this. And that was some of the foundational stuff where I realized, Hey, I changed because I got to the point where I've been so focused on proving everybody wrong Lon, taking everybody on this journey and saying, Ha ha, you didn't think I could be here? Look where I am now. And then I kind of turned around and said, but where am I? What do I have? And that's a lot of the backdrop that brings brings me to present day Adam and where I am.
Lon Stroschein: [00:49:21] Well. You just described the cross from the endowment phase into the Normal 40 phase. You get there and you've got all these things and you look back like, Yeah, but what did I build? What am I leaving behind? I'm at half time. I don't have a legacy yet other than I was able to hold a job and make some money. And I think that's really important that actually we do wrestle with that. Some people are so annoyed by the fact that I like to talk about other people's legacy and what your legacy is going to be and what your second half story is going to be, because whether you do it with intention or not. When you take your last breath, you being the proverbial you who can hear my voice right now. You will have a legacy. So you just as well spend 40 years making it what you want it to be. And that's why Normal 40 is such a gift. Normal 40 isn't about the 40 years that are behind you. It's about the 40 years you have left to build that wall, write that song, paint the picture, whatever you want to do to have a legacy. We're coming up on time here. So I want to push on that just a little bit with you, Adam. You talked about what drives you and it's to surpass expectation and it's to use your gifts to do that. And you you've got a track record of doing it. I want to know if you could share, you might not know what your second half story is. So many of us don't. And that's too big a question. But what are the ingredients for you when you think about your next 40 years and you think about your legacy and you think about the wall you want to build or the painting you want to draw or the music you want to write or the thing you want to say, This is the proof that I was here. What are those ingredients?
Adam Eaton: [00:51:13] Yeah, a lot of it is formed around people Lon. And I think that's the thing as I've taken inventory of my life and my career and I'll frame this question a little differently, but I think it'll answer what you're asking is when someone says think back in your career and think back are the best moments, the best times, the top five things. If you said, hey, you want to write them on a board, these are your top five things. They're all about people. They're all about the one person I hired that is now running this particular part of the division. They are about this one individual that I worked with that didn't think that they could do this role, but did it. And it's super successful. It's all people driven. So I think for me, a lot of it is about the people I've had an opportunity to interact with and work with and really that whole concept of leaving it better than you found it. And I take a lot of that I guess too Lon now they think about this from me being driven to be kind of the person I am. I didn't have anyone to show me the way. I didn't have anyone that I really said, Hey, that's a mentor. Hey, I learn this from this person.
[00:52:12] I did a lot of my own learning through my own self discovery, and that can be both fun and painful because you fall down, your skin, your knees, and you have no idea what to do and where to go next. So I've always looked at that as an opportunity of saying there are people in my life that I can provide some of that insight that no one provided me and some of that guidance and coaching that I didn't get. And so I always try to fulfill that void for people and make sure that I can do that. So a lot of it's very people based. Secondarily, right now, you and I are talking and I'm talking into a microphone and I love doing it. I do numerous podcasts a week talking about sports, talking about fun stuff. I love to entertain, I love to educate, I love to just be a part of conversation and talk to people about stuff. I love the opportunity to have that interaction, to entertain, to inform, to learn something myself. I think that's another foundational building block element and really finding ways to continue to give back Lon. I think it's giving back and that's such a broad term.
[00:53:13] And I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm this altruistic person where I'm going to start my own non for profit to do X, Y, Z. But I may give back in so many ways, give back to the community, give back to the people that are around you. Pour into the individuals in your life that need that support. You know, be there for people who have questions, who have concerns. I think a lot of that is where my head is at and finding ways to just make things better and just be better overall. And whatever construct that takes, like I'm good with it. Like, I think that's the great thing about Normal 40 is this is the first time I've really invested in myself. We talk about investment a lot, and if you've led people, you've led teams, you're always taking the time to mentor that person. You're always doing this seminar. How often do you really stop? If you're listening to my voice right there? What's the last time you invested in yourself? When's the last time you said, Hey, I've got a dollar, I'm going to invest it in me? A lot of us are wired to invest it in something or someone or some place. When do you invest it in yourself? And that's what Normal 40 has been for me.
[00:54:17] And as I've invested in myself, I've recognized that there are so many paths and avenues out there that I don't even know that I begin to scratch the surface on what that looks like. And that's what I think the second half of my story looks like is opportunity. It's curiosity, and it's just showing up every day and seeing what comes your way. Six months ago, if someone had said, Adam, you're going to meet this guy in the Internet and you guys are going to create a wildly successful podcast, I'd have been like, I don't know how the heck that's ever going to happen. Yet here we are. And so I think that's what keeps me showing up. That's what I want my legacy to be Lon is be open to anything, open to whatever happens next and have the confidence to say, I don't know where this is going to go. This may be the best thing I ever do. It's maybe the worst thing I ever do, but I'm going to learn something from it and I'm going to take that learning and continue to grow and move forward. And I think that's what my second half story will be about.
Lon Stroschein: [00:55:11] I love it, man. We better put a bow on it right there. But just to summarize, there were two ingredients that led both of us to this exact conversation, courage and curiosity. Courage to go out there and be a little bit vulnerable and curious enough to actually do something about it and just see where it goes, the emails back and forth as proof the fact that four months ago you couldn't have imagined sharing a conversation that we shared last week. You couldn't imagine. It's just courage and curiosity and it takes you so far. If you lean into it and you don't get too excited about naming it or labeling it, you just show up curious with some courage and some crazy things happen. So, dude, thank you so much for sharing your story. I can't tell you how much I enjoy chatting with you, whether it's recorded or not. And one of these days we're actually going to get to actually meet one another and that will be really cool deal.
Adam Eaton: [00:56:10] It will yeah. It's funny how again, connections are born and we're living in such an age line where there are so many possibilities for everybody out there. This isn't 25 years ago where you and I would have had to go meet someplace to dream this up. The magic of the Internet, the power of technology allows you so many opportunities. And I'm appreciative that you keep yourself open to those opportunities. I'm glad that we found sort of that common thread. And I hope anybody listening to the Normal 40 who's thinking about how can I do this? I challenge you to think about how you can grow, what that next step looks like for you, even if it's a small one. Be curious, be open. You never know where it's going to take you. It's such a wild ride Lon.
Lon Stroschein: [00:56:55] Adam, you're once again proving why you are a dude to know. And we're going to keep bringing dudes to know right here into your AirPods every other week at this time. So if you like this podcast, please subscribe. Please share it with a friend. Look, we try to put these out there so of course you can listen to them, but it's also the thing that maybe you can share with a friend. Maybe it's something that you can share in a closed circle. You can forward an email. And the more you do that, the only way Adam and I get to live our mission is when you show up and leave a like or leave a comment. That's super helpful. Two, go ahead and join me on LinkedIn, follow me, join the group. I've got a close group. You can ask for access. I let most people in. There is a bit of a screening process and but that's a closed private group where you can come in and be yourself and only the people in that group can see what's going on. Third, join me at Normal 40.com. I do have a off LinkedIn group there as well, where we keep it even more real and don't bother bringing your title because I don't care. Just bring who you are and we work through some real things in real time. And last thing I'll say is that in February I'm going to launch a cohort of ten dudes and it's going to be conversation just like this and a cohort based, and it's going to be the ten of us over eight months going through a process. If that's of interest of you, email me. Lon at Normal40.com. In the meantime, I will see you guys on the next page and I'm super glad that you are here. Thanks, everyone.
