normal_40_ep_5 (Transcript)
Lon: [00:00:00] Hi, my name is Lon Stroschein, founder of the Normal 40. I am so glad you are here. If you're here, it's not by accident. Dude, you're searching. And I get it because I've been there. In February 2022, after 14 years, I left my job as a public company executive, and I left without a resume. I left without a bunch of jobs lined up and I left without being independently wealthy. But I went in search of something more. I went in search of finding out exactly who it is I was capable of being. And I've learned that my mission in life is to inspire 1000 dudes to go chase their same journey. I am so glad you're here. I'm so glad you found this podcast, because here we're going to keep it real. We're going to keep it raw, and there are going to be thousands of dudes just like you who can't wait to hear what we talk about next. Dude, thanks for being here. I can't wait to see you along the normal 40 highway.
Adam: [00:01:06] All right. Welcome back to Normal 40, the podcast. My name is Adam. I'll be your copilot today. And as always, I am super grateful to be joined by the lead pilot, a dude you need to know somebody who set out to inspire 1000 people to live their second half story. It's the founder of Normal 40. It's Lon Stroschein. And Lon, thanks again for for joining your own show. I definitely appreciate you spend some more time with us.
Lon: [00:01:32] Yeah, man. It's always great to see you. You know, I think I've said this at the top of every show, but, Adam, you and I don't know each other. I mean, this is the sixth time we've talked, and five of them have been a podcast. We're going to change that one of these days.
Adam: [00:01:49] We should absolutely change it. I think there's an event coming up, by the way, if you want to get to the normal 40 group. So if you're listening to this pre November, what is it, November 10th, get into the normal 40 group on LinkedIn. And there's a couple of surprise announcements that Lon's put out there that you want to take a look at Lon but on this show. So let's just orient for the audience who maybe hasn't caught up on previous episodes or if you have been following along, we appreciate you for doing that. But if you just found us for the first time, what we do here is we've been kind of covering emotions. And if you're a dude, emotions seems like a scary concept. Probably the only emotions you're into are like the BG song. The emotions that we're talking about here are probably not ones that you want to confront or ones that you're comfortable talking about. But if you think about why you're here and why you found us, it's because you do have these emotions and you're looking for an outlet to share them. And that's what we want to do on this show. This is your show Lon and I get to sort of steer the plane as it is. But this is your show.
[00:02:50] So we're going to tackle another emotion today. And it's one that in full transparency that to you folks listening. This was one that kind of came to you. It wasn't on our original list. It wasn't something we had sort of preplanned. And I think you felt compelled and inspired to share a little bit more about this emotion. And you call it the acceptance. So, we're going to dive a little bit deeper into what that means, what the acceptance means as it relates to normal 40. But let me open the floor to you, Lon. When I say the words the acceptance, what comes to mind for you? What does that mean for you?
Lon: [00:03:26] Look, I think I did come to this late. I mean, I was all the way through. I was blue past acceptance before I went back and was able to think through what was I going through, what were those things. And the hundreds of conversations I've had in the last six months with people, I realized there is this point. There's this point in the process that you go through. And this is a process. If you're here and you're listening, it's for a reason. It's because you're going through a process that's fine. It's wonderful. And in my opinion, it can be one of your life's greatest gifts, but it doesn't mean it isn't confusing and hard and frustrating and all of those things. But as we've been putting together our podcast, we've talked about how it started and we've talked about the trade and we talked about the guilt that you feel as you're kind of working through this. But at some point something happens and it is one of the few times in your life, like as a switch happens, like there's a trigger, something absolutely just triggers in and your outlook on everything around you shifts a little bit and that can be a lot of things. But the first thing that I think it is, is it's the first time in your life you've accepted that the path you're on doesn't have to be the path you stay on. And until you get that moment of freedom, where you accept it where you like. I accept that I'm on a path and I accept that it's brought me right here, but I also accept I don't have to stay here and I accept that I might want to do something else. And I'm accepting the fact that I now have the freedom to do something about it.
[00:05:17] In that moment as you arrive at the acceptance and you have that moment quickly, but it takes months and months. And in my case, it took years. It took years to arrive at that point to have that acceptance. But I believe it happened. And one more thing quickly Adam, as I think what is acceptance? What does that mean? It's a consent. Acceptance is consent. To be accepted means you have been offered something. Well, you're just offering yourself something and you're bothering to show up and see it for what it is and you're giving yourself the permission to receive it. And it doesn't happen as you think it would. It sounds like, Well, that should just happen. But it doesn't. It doesn't for all of the reasons that you are, where you still are. Getting to that acceptance is just it's an essential part of the process. But when you do, that's kind of where the gas turns on. That's where you have your own permission to go in and explore and start the process. But that's why, you know, you're right, we did call inaudible. And as of just hours ago we were going to do a completely different podcast and we said, Now this is it. This we got to talk about this because until dudes can accept this, give themselves permission to be someone else, give themselves permission to leave who it is they were becoming. You're never going to start. So here we are.
Adam: [00:06:50] As you've talked to and again, your goal is to talk to a 1000 people, 2000 people, 3000 people. I think, you know, your limit is probably someone calling you right now that wants to talk to you because they want to get your advice on something.
Lon: [00:07:03] Oh man you gotta love two dudes just doing a podcast. That is actually my daughter.
Adam: [00:07:09] There you go.
Lon: [00:07:10] Because it's my daughter and she's a freshman in college. It will probably happen 15 more times. So let's just deal with that. And we're not going to edit that out, baby.
Adam: [00:07:18] No, we don't edit around here. We don'tedit around here.
Lon: [00:07:21] We live in so.
Adam: [00:07:22] But. But I guess the question is who or what gets in the way of somebody getting to the point of acceptance. Because that seems like such an easy concept. As you said earlier, you know, we're wired to say someone gives you a gift, you accepted someone to give you a compliment, you accept it. Acceptance is somewhat relatively standard practice in a lot of different areas. But when it comes to one's self, I feel like acceptance is one of the more harder things to grant yourself. Grant yourself the grace to have that acceptance. What gets in the way of that? What gets in the way of somebody saying, Hey, I accept where I am, who I am, and where I've arrived at. As you've talked to people, what do you see stands in their way?
Lon: [00:08:04] So before I answer that, let me just offer something to you. So you showed up. You're doing this show and man, I think you do an awesome job. I think you've got an incredible gift for this. And I think that you make this show what it is, man.
Adam: [00:08:22] Let's talk more about that then. Yeah.
Lon: [00:08:25] But they see and I mean that, but I'm like, you didn't accept it. I mean, it's just kind of in us to be like, Yeah, yeah, forget about it. I'm just here. And it's kind of making my point. I do mean that. And, and my wife has said more than once, I'm fine. But you're the person she shows up to listen to. But it's kind of in us. The acceptance. How many times you get a compliment like Yeah, but I you know, that was because of so-and-so or you know that. And that's great and good and decent. But do take a moment to accept it when somebody gives you a compliment, say thank you. Thank you. I do. I do work hard. I have put a lot into this. And it's no different with ourselves. It's no different given ourselves that permission to explore who it is we aren't yet. I'm going to talk really quick about a conversation I had just yesterday. And I know this dude's going to listen and he's going to know I'm talking about him and you're going to hear more for this cat because he's giving me permission to share a little bit more.
[00:09:31] But one of the things that we talked about is he made the trade. He's gone all the way through. He's gone all the way through. And we've had wonderful conversations. And he has left a job he was at for longer than he was married. And he was married for more than 20 years. He is married and has been married for more than 25 years. And it's all he knew. It's all his kids have ever known. He was synonymous with this company and he made the trade. Not because he needed to, not because his boss wanted to, because he knew his future wasn't in that company. And I was like, tell me about that. Tell me about the emotions. What did you have to channel? And he said, for me to accept it, I had to channel selfishness. I had to allow myself to be selfish. I had to. He had to feel like this is his time. This is his obligation. I've had other people that I talked to say, I feel like it's not my option. It's not even my calling. It's my obligation to go do this. And so I think all of that acceptance has the requirement of giving yourself permission to also be a little selfish if ever there was a time in your life. This is it. And you'll never regret taking this week. That'll be more than a week. It'll be a six months to be selfish enough to make this change. Make this trade or not. But at least do the math around it and accept that who you have become might not be all you're capable of being. And give yourself the freedom and selfishlessness. I might have put one or three syllables in there to actually go pursue it.
Adam: [00:11:19] That sounds easier said than done. Then why don't more people do that, Lon? And why don't more people hear those words and say, Yeah, you're absolutely right. Why are we wired to not want to be that way? Or maybe are we wired? Is our wiring formed over time? And then we have a hard time unwiring. How does that construct work when you think about why don't more people just do what you said? It seemed very simple as you laid it out like that.
Lon: [00:11:45] I think we're hardwired through the generations we've been nurtured, and it has become our nature. To be loyal, to remain loyal. And in the same conversation that I had with this normal 40 group member, that's what he chalked it up to. That's what he chalked it up to in a conversation with his wife was loyalty. He didn't want to appear unloyal for 25 years. He didn't want to appear unloyal. And when he was saying it, I'm like, dude, that is so beautiful because it's true. It is true. And if you're listening to my voice and you're wrestling with something, I bet you dollars to donuts that one of the things you don't want to be pegged as is unloyal, unfaithful, didn't show up. And those things are hardwired in us so much so that we don't allow ourselves to even consider the acceptance, consider being selfish enough to or selfish enough to go do this. And I think that, that is why we're wired to just wait to hold on. Give it another day, give it another quarter, collect another bonus, it'll get better. And in hindsight, what you realize is it might not get worse and often times it doesn't get worse. But it almost never gets better without you having an awkward conversation with yourself, with your spouse or with your boss or all three. It doesn't get better without that awkward conversation.
Adam: [00:13:26] How much of this do you think is generational or societal in nature? I'll give you a story. My father in law was one of those individuals who got up every morning at 7:00, you know, tied up his bootstraps, grab his lunch pail, went to work, came home every night at 6:00 o'clock. And he did that for 35 years. And that's what he did. That was his identity. That's kind of who he became. He became that person. Everyone knew that about him. We scheduled things around him because of that That was his literal identity. And I remember when I met his daughter, my wife now, and I got my first real big boy job and I was excited and I stayed there for a little bit. And it wasn't something I loved. And I remember thinking about taking a new job and we were over at a holiday dinner and my wife says, Hey, dad, mom, you know, guess what? Adam's got some ideas of a new career and a new job. And my father in law looked at me very sternly and said, Well, how long you been at your current job? And I said, I think it's about two years. Well, what, you're leaving already? And it was a foreign concept to him. He looked at me like I had three heads at that moment in time, and I sort of explained the opportunity and growth advancement. And he kind of went into a story about when I started in my company, I worked my way up the ladder and so on and so forth. And that's always struck with me in that no matter how many times I've had conversations with him about my career or what I'm working on, I've always got the sense that, you know, he was "quasi disappointed". I'll put that with air quotes that I didn't just follow that path. So I wonder, as you talk to people, as you talk to dudes who kind of tell their story, how much of it do you think is generational? How much do you think it is almost a learned behavior from your father, your grandfather, your uncles, maybe your mom, your aunt, your sisters, whatever? How much do you think of that is generational from what it is that maybe a lot of folks who are in this age range sort of grew up seeing and knowing and understanding?
Lon: [00:15:16] So, how much is generational? I don't know if I can put a percentage on it accurately, but I would say, you know, it's kind of a guess. 70%, maybe only 60%. And here's why I say that. I literally spend probably 12 hours to 15 hours a week on 30 to 45 minute phone calls with dudes. And this is what we talk about. And in front of me, I might share this with you in front of me, I'm holding it up for those of you who are watching that it's a list of things. I ask just a couple of questions, you know, what are you feeling? And I get it in their words. And I've got probably 65 different words that they use. And then what do you want? And then in the same 65. But in those conversations, I ask so if you know. You might not know where your future is and what it looks like exactly. But you know where it's not. If you're calling me, you've probably already got to the point of believing, maybe not accepting, but believing that maybe your future isn't where your feet are.
[00:16:23] So you're calling me to see if I can kickstart something and. And I'll be dang. A lot of times we can. And so I ask them, though. Why are you still there if you know that this isn't where your future is and a lot of them come back to exactly what you just talked about, Adam. How their parents have jobs. How they have it so much better than their parents had it and their grandparents had it. So many of us come from situations we inherited and upbringing where there were hard times, really hard times that our parents went through. And I did that. My parents went through a wonderfully hard time that probably we'll talk about at some point, but they go through this. And so parents who went through that and grandparents who went through that just want for your kids to get someplace safe and be happy. Force yourself into accepting happiness. Force yourself into accepting where you are for the safety of having a job. And look, that's not all bad. I'm not here to say that, that isn't for a lot of people. It probably is. But if you're finding us, Adam, if you're listening to this podcast, if you finding me, if you're following on LinkedIn, that's just not you. It's not you. You're wired different and so one of the bridges you cross in acceptance is it will be, what is my father in law going to think of this? I have that. I have that. And I still don't know what my father in law thinks of it, honestly. I don't. He certainly has never said, boy, congratulations on following your dream. And maybe that's what he's thinking, but he's never said it.
[00:18:18] And by the way, neither is my dad, although I'll give my dad some credit, who's 83 and has been a farmer his whole life. He's like, I don't get it. But I just hope you're having fun and, you know, yes, great. I'll take that. I'll take that. It wasn't judging. It wasn't. It wasn't judging. So, look, I think it's generational. I think it matters. I think as dudes, there again, if my audience is dudes between the age of late thirties and and mid-fifties, chances are our in-laws are still alive and aging and it matters to us what they think, I mean, to some extent. And so we don't want to necessarily have the conversation about why we left the job that's created the life we have for something else that's got elements of risk to it. So I think it's really important.
Adam: [00:19:08] That's interesting and going back to what you said your father told you, I guess how important is it in this process for people to understand whether or not they have to explain and make someone understand their acceptance. You said your dad said to you, hey, I'm happy for you. I don't get it, but I'm happy for you. How important is the, "get it" in this process? And how much do you think people get hung up on the fact that somebody won't get it? My wife won't get it. My neighbor won't get it. How much is the 'get it' important as you think about acceptance?
Lon: [00:19:44] I think it's super important. And I do. I think there's an evolution to acceptance to getting there. And probably the hardest step is step one and before you can get to acceptance. Keep in mind acceptance is I've given myself permission to go be who I want to be. That's it. That's the freedom. That is the moment of lightness. Not in knowing, not enlightenment, but just lightness. Lighten your feet. And the weight kind of rolls off your shoulder. It's that moment. But to do that, you've got to do the hardest thing in the world, man. The single hardest thing in the world. And that is this. You have got to give up and lay down your image. Now think about that. Don't let that be a throwaway. In this whole conversation. Don't let that be a throwaway. Step one is that you have to muster the courage and then have the audacity to back it up to lay down your image. So what's your image? Your image is everything. You have manufactured for an outsider looking in. It's not ego. Don't get these too confused.
Lon: [00:21:03] I have this conversation with a lot of people. I can separate in black and white. What is the difference between ego and image? Ego is me. Ego is hardwired. Ego is what I need. Ego is what makes me feel good. And I have it for me, it's internal. Image is what I manufacture for other people. It's what I manufactured as a public company executive. It's the office I set in. It's the title on my business card. It's the car I drove. It's the size of my house. It's the neighborhood I live in. It's the clothes I put my kids in. It's the schools my kids go to. It's the clubs I go to that is image that's manufactured. It has nothing to do with my ego. Sure, sometimes the egomaniacs need that image, sometimes not. I don't. A lot of people don't. And a lot of people who get to normal 40 don't. But to get acceptance rule number one, you got to lay down your image, boss. And that is miserably hard because you just spent the last 20 years of your life building it. That's step one.
Adam: [00:22:07] I think it's not the cut off. I think it's interesting. I love that you used the word manufacture. Because, you know, when you think about what manufacture means, like in the literal sense, like you're making something, you're creating something, you're crafting something. You're crafting your image. And so when you use that word, I think it's really interesting when you phrase it that way, because the reality is in some respects, it sounds like and keep me honest on this comment, it sounds like what you're saying to people is you have to accept the fact that your image is manufactured, that is what you created. That doesn't mean that's who you are. And I imagine that's got to be, to your point, one of the most challenging things to look at and say, well, I was always thought of as, you know, my title and my status or whatever, but manufacturer is such a great word to use when you kind of think about somebody's image overall.
Lon: [00:22:57] We've all done it. Look, if we're being honest with ourselves. You can write a list of what your image is according to others. And you walk around your house, just walk around your house, take a lap around your house, and then a lap around your office and look at the things that are there that are manufacturing an image. And look, I don't say this like it's wrong. I don't. It just is. I don't think it's wrong. It just is. I did it. I probably still do it. But I would say it's different. But let's talk about me. What was my image? Public company executive. Okay, it was important. The title on my business card. Why? For me, maybe. But I wanted anyone I handed that too to read executive director of Mergers and Acquisitions. That's the business I manufactured that. Not only did I manufacture it, I asked for that title. I asked for that title. It was part of who I was wanted to put out there. Is that bad? Maybe. I don't think so personally. Because it doesn't matter. It just is what it is. I don't bother judging it. Just accept it. We're going back to acceptance. You got to be real about this. You got to accept the fact that you have an image that you've manufactured. If you can't accept that, you're not getting to acceptance. That's why it's rule number one. You've got to be willing to lay down your image. I did. I walked away from the office. I walked away from the title. I walked away from the pay. I walked away from the ability to afford a whole bunch of things that I no longer can afford, that just eight months ago I could have afforded easily. Image down step one.
Adam: [00:24:53] Let's talk about that acceptance for a second as I hear you talk about it. Here's what comes to mind. And this is maybe a personal thought on my side. I think through, okay, what does acceptance mean? And you're talking through accepting that you as a human, you as a dude, that you're prepared to make that next change, that you're prepared to say to yourself, I'm not who I want to be. I want to do something more. I want to be something more. And I'm paraphrasing that. I'm sure I butchered that a little bit. But when I think about the acceptance, one of the things that challenges me and maybe other people out there are feeling this way and I'd love your thoughts on this is while I accept that who I am today isn't who I want to be. I don't know how to go get what it is I want to go get. I don't know how it is that I can go become what I want to be. I just know I don't want to be where my feet are now. I want to be someplace else. And I think some people maybe struggle with that or maybe I struggle with that. And I don't want to put this on everybody else. Maybe I struggle with saying, Hey, I'm not ready to accept this because I don't know what it is I'm accepting yet. All I'm saying is I'm different and I wonder how many people you encounter that sort of get to that same space where they know they're changing. They know they're not the same person they were six months ago, 12 months ago, or whatever that timeframe is. But they don't yet know who they're going to be. In some respects, it must be really hard to accept not knowing their future and then trying to explain to others, Hey, I'm accepting a new reality for me, but I don't know what that means yet. And that's going to be incredibly uncomfortable for people to get past that burden and to truly get to that acceptance stage.
Lon: [00:26:26] Yeah, man, you're exactly right. It is miserably hard. I would say this. The one caveat I would add to what you said there was acceptance isn't about knowing who you're going to be. That isn't it? We're not there yet. You won't. You can't leap to that. The only way to leap to that is, you know, somehow you win the job lottery and that's just not what you can bank on. I think that you've got to be honest about who you really are. You know what I mean? So the acceptance doesn't start with, okay, I've accepted that I don't belong where I've been going and out. Now I'm going to go here. The acceptance is simply permission. It's just the permission. And nobody else will even know. Nobody will know when you've given yourself the permission, nobody will know when you've accepted that, Okay, I am going to go figure out what's next. You don't know. You don't even know where to start. You don't even know what it might be. But you've accepted that you're going to take this journey. And it might take six months, it might take six years, and you might decide after you've accepted that maybe you want something else. You might decide in six months or six years that you want to stay right where you're at. The point is you've accepted that you're willing to go. Be curious enough to find out who it is that you're capable of being.
[00:28:07] And then you go through, look, what do you do about it? Well, that's when I tell people, you probably better call me, because I got a process that is what I do. I help people figure that out. I mean, if there's nothing you ever take of normal 40 know that there is a process that you can go through. I just know where you're at before you can start that process, You've got to go through a whole series of stuff. And I wanted to use bad words there, but I'm trying to cut that down. But you've got to go through a whole bunch of things before you're ready to accept the fact that you're willing to pivot. And so I think that's the biggest thing is in acceptance you're just giving yourself permission to explore who it is you might be next. And keep in mind, I didn't say who you're going to be forever, just who you're going to be next. It's not a commitment. It's not a marriage. It isn't a forever. It's not another 15 years. It's who are you going to be next? And by the way, you might get it wrong. Fine, then figure out who you're going to be after that. What's next? And that's just all part of the process.
Adam: [00:29:17] I think one of the myths that, you know, as I've talked to some people in my circle of friends about this normal 40 concept and the process that you've created, I think one of the myths that you know, I've heard from a lot of people is, you know, that this is, you know, I had one individual tell me, you know, making wholesale changes. And I said, you know, this isn't a wholesale change. You know, this is to your point, maybe this is permission to do something. This is exploring something different. This is allowing yourself to kind of think in a different manner. And I think a lot of the folks who maybe don't understand this or don't get it, I'll use those words again that you said earlier, don't get it is this doesn't mean when you accept something, you're leaving everything else behind. This isn't an either or proposition. You're either this or you're that. It sounds like what a lot of people that maybe and you correct me on this one, the myth is that you have to become a completely different person, and that acceptance means that you'll never be the same again. And I guess in some respects, maybe the way you think about things and maybe the way you work will be different will evolve. But it doesn't mean you have to leave everything you know behind. You're not packing up all your bags and saying, I'm taking it all with me. You get to kind of pick and choose that at that point in time. And that's a powerful decision to make.
Lon: [00:30:32] Such a great question. And I think this is probably cued up by one of our normal 40 listeners who said, Hey, I got a question. What do you take with you? And it's such a beautiful question, and I'm so glad that you asked it. And I'm so glad that he brought it up. And you're not here. Important distinction. You are not becoming a different person as you go through this process. Instead, you're actually becoming the person you're hardwired to be. Think about that. You are not becoming someone you're not. You're finally, maybe for the first time in your life, because you're making this decision, because you're taking this on. For me, it was the first time in my life. So let's just talk about me. For the first time in my life. I didn't have any guarantee. I didn't have any W-2, but I knew what I was good at and I knew what filled me up. And I knew that if I just showed up authentically and provided a place for dudes to show up authentically with a dude who can help, guide them. That I would figure out the rest. But that is who I was. Yeah, I could do M&A. Yes, I could do sales. Yes, I could do all sorts. I could build a strategy for a company over for a ten year time. I can do those things and that's pretty good at it, let's be honest. And I could have kept doing it.
[00:32:06] Who I was, who I wanted to be, was different. And I'm just connecting to who it is, I really am. So what do you take with you? You. Everything you love about you. What do you leave behind? The shit you don't like anyway. The stuff you don't like anyway. And that is so freeing. And what I did, I made a list. I made a list of the stuff I didn't want to do anymore. The stuff I don't want. I just don't want any more of one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And what do I want a bunch of on the other side? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And it's a great list. And I refer back to that a whole bunch of different times to make sure that as I build normal 40 and it's in its infancy. I mean it's a baby. As I build normal 40, I'm going to make really sure that I don't do a bunch of stuff I don't want to do. I don't want that anymore. I want to make sure that I'm focused on the things that I just love to do. And that's really, really the thing. So what do you take with you? Your integrity. How your hardwired. You know what else you take with you? You take your friendships with you and your friends. And I'm talking about your coworkers. They're going to be surprised at first, curious second and want to know what it's like third. Three months after you're gone, they're going to reach out and say, What is it like? What are you doing? You know, what do you do on a Tuesday when you know, you don't have a senior staff meeting, whatever. And those are the things you take with you and you get to leave behind everything you want, whether you're starting your own business or you're going to work for another company or you're going to work for a friend, you have that list of what you will and will not tolerate, and that then becomes the life you will or will not enjoy.
Adam: [00:34:01] I think it's interesting when you as you talk about this. One thing, I'm jotting notes down while you talk. And one thing that I jotted down as I heard you say something was how many people out there need. And you talk about giving yourself permission. Giving yourself the ability to accept where you are. How many people out there need or do you think feel the need to explain themselves in order to be accepted? Like, how am I ever going to explain this to so-and-so? How am I ever going to? What's so-and-so going to think of this? Is there a connective point between accepting in selfishness and this sense and sort of giving yourself permission in the need to explain? And how much does that get in the way? Because I feel like as I think through my own head, as I hear you talk, I think through all the people, I'm going to have to sit down and explain this to. And it sounds like what you're basically saying is if they're your friends, they're your friends, they will stay with you. And if they don't understand who you are, then that's instructive of that relationship anyway. Maybe that's something you need. You need to recalibrate in your life. But how much does the need to explain blocks someone from really truly getting to that acceptance moment for really, truly giving themselves permission?
Lon: [00:35:11] A lot. And I tie it all the way back to image. You know, I can go all the way back to my very first job out of college. I couldn't wait for somebody to ask me the question, Hey, man, what do you do? Man I had a killer answer. Every time, let me give them to you. All right, I'm 24. Hey, man, what do you do? I'm a senior staff member for United States Senator. Oh, that's pretty cool for a 24 year old. Okay, you're next. I did that for five and a half years. Next. Hey, man, what do you do? I'm a vice president of a bank. I created a private client group, private wealth group. And I've got a network of really young, influential up and comers who are my friends, and we white glove and experience for them. Would you like to join? Wonderful. I mean, he's like, Yeah, like, great. Cool. Next, Hey, man, what do you do? I'm a public company executive. I'm in charge of a division. I run an aerospace and defense contracting company. I've got a secret level clearances, and I usually do spend my time doing classified briefs in the Pentagon and things of that nature. Oh, that's. Wow. Great. Next, what do you do? Public company executive. I do mergers and acquisitions for public company. Right now, you might remember we just did a couple in the last few months, blah, blah, blah. Now I get this question. I've separated. Hey, Lon, what do you do? Well, I'm on a mission to help 1000 dudes write their second half story.
[00:36:34] That is hard. That is the image, every way I want. If you're listening, I want you to think about how you answer the question, Hey, man, what do you do? Because you've done it today. You've done it today. Somebody asking that question. Hey, man, what do you do and how do you answer it? And it's really important, you know, What is it? My guess is, it is all part of the image you manufacture. And if you didn't do that, I did. Okay, sorry. I did it. And it is absolutely. You ask the question, how hard is it to explain and is that a roadblock? You better believe it is. It is a roadblock. Now, I'm finally getting good at it because I don't care. I care less about what other people think of my image because I'm on mission. We've talked about that, too. When you're on mission and you know who it is, you're here to help. And you know how your skills can do that. And you feel the success in the tailwinds and the impact that you're having on people using your skills. It doesn't matter what somebody you meet at a cocktail party thinks of your mission or your title or your company. It doesn't. I don't care, I used to. My first few months after I separated, man I wrestled with it. Now I'm on a mission to help 1000 dudes write their second half story and I am having a blast, and that usually shuts them up.
Adam: [00:38:13] Yeah. Hey, you must be a lot of fun at cocktail parties with all those potential stories down the road. So somebody out there right now, Lon, and they're saying to themselves, Hey, I'm going to make this change, I'm going to make this train, I'm on mission and I'm going to start accepting who I am. And they're going to have a cocktail party. It's the holidays are coming up as you and I are recording. We're on the holiday season. We're on the Christmas cookie season. And you're going to go to a party. And for the first time, that person has made that trade. What advice do you give them for the first time utter that phrase out loud? When someone says, hey, man, what do you do? What advice do you have for that person? Right now, I was in his car driving and going, I don't know how I'm going to answer that. Like, what am I going to say? They're going to look at me weird. What emotions did you go through and how did you get past that?
Lon: [00:39:00] Well, I will tell you this. It's easier when you do have some clarity on your mission. So going back to your example of holiday parties. I would probably tell most people, look, don't just quit and figure it out if you don't have to. Go ahead and do the hard work on the nights and weekends to try to figure it out. But don't do what I did. Don't just turn the piece of paper around and say, I'm out. I'll see you guys. See you guys later. Because it feels like vacation for about the first two weeks. And it's like, oh, well, jeez, how do I answer that question? But there again, and I didn't know when I left that this was going to be my mission. I had no idea. I had no idea. Which is kind of hard to believe that that was only eight months ago. But I had no idea when I left what my mission was going to be. And as it became more and more clear and it became more and more clear, the more and more curious I got about it. The more I engaged with people who wanted to engage with me, the more clear my mission got and the more confidence I had in telling people exactly what my mission was. So to answer your question, if you don't have to quit, keep your job. Keep the imagery of manufactured for now and at the point in time when you feel like you're on mission and you know what you want to do next, maybe not forever, Just next. Write a sentence. Write a mission. That mission statement, I will inspire a thousand people to show up and live the life they want and live their second half story. That is my mission. That's it. And that's what I tell people. That's also my job title. The name of my company is Normal 40. This is where I show up and you can take it or leave it, man. You can take it or leave it because I'm happy with it.
Adam: [00:40:54] Well, I hope everybody out there is taking it with them on. But it sounds like when you're talking about acceptance, there's two things that come to mind. The way you just kind of frame that I want to kind of dive into that a second. So, on one hand, there's accepting to your point, I'm not the person that I want to be. I want to feel different. I'm wired differently. I want to do something differently. There's accepting that, that materially I am not the same person or I don't want to be the same person. But there's also accepting your current plan. Accepting that you know that you're not that. But to your point, this is where I am now and this is how I'm going to get there. How do you kind of think about those two distinctions? There's accepting deep down in me there's a change that's happening and I'm going to follow it. And there's also accepting that I'm not ready to go exactly there just yet. And here's my plan together. How do you kind of think about the distinction between those two?
Lon: [00:41:43] The first one I think we've talked a lot about. It's that moment when you accept that okay maybe there's a trade coming in the future and that acceptance and I don't think we need to talk much more about that. And then the other one is accepting what it is you're going to do and that kind of goes back to the trade. Now you have gone all the way through the process. You've been thinking about a trade. You just haven't done the work to know what it is. Now you've accepted, you've given yourself permission to go explore and you're doing that. And now step two is learning about that. And step three is testing the thesis. I mean, you're still in acceptance, you're still in trade mode. You haven't actually made the trade yet. And then you arrive at the decision, do you stay or do you go? Now you've done the work.
[00:42:32] Keep in mind it started. Let's just walk through the process. You've accepted the fact that your future isn't where your feet are. Then you start doing the work. Then you go through the process, the process of exploring. That's when we go on a ramble. We just go. We've got to rediscover what's in you. Then you learn and invest. That's step two. Step three, you test, you test the thesis. What do you think it might be? Where are you going to go volunteer? Where are you going to show up for free to see if it's actually it. And you get as much clarity about it as you can before you decide, Okay, now I know. Now I know and is it worth the trade and do you do it? And at that point, you've got a whole new set of acceptance. You've given up your old job. If you make the trade and you've accepted this new role, and I tell everyone when they do that, don't lose your curiosity. Don't think you have it figured out. Don't wait until you got to figure it out. You'll never do it. But acknowledge that you don't have it figured out and show up for the adventure. I honestly believe that that's where the fun is. Show up for the adventure, believing that in time everything, how it's supposed to look will work itself out. What it's supposed to be? That's what you need to be curious about.
Adam: [00:43:53] Why do you think people run away from these feelings and these emotions? Lon, we talk about this at every episode thus far in the normal 40 series emotions and things that dudes aren't always comfortable with. Why do you think people run away from the emotion where they get that inner feeling like this is not where I'm meant to be anymore? You know, if someone's out there wrestling with that right now and they want to take that first step, what's that first step? What's that first step for them? If in the pit of their gut, they're driving in their car to their job right now and to their career and something they're not inspired by, something they're not fulfilled with, and they're hearing our words and something's hitting them. And they want to squash it. They want to just squash it down and get to the office and sit down at the desk and take that 9 a.m. Microsoft teams meeting. Like, what would you tell that person who's got that emotion in the pit of their stomach right now and is driving in their BMW as fast as they can away from it?
Lon: [00:44:52] If they've got the feelings and we've talked about them all, Let me read some of them. This is really great. I'm going to get back to what am I telling this person who's got this? But here's a list of about 65 things that dudes tell me they're feeling. Their life is a blur. They've got a bunch of stability, but no pleasure. There's no control. They're exhausted. I feel discontent. I'm unsettled. Everything feels guilty. I'm alone and I have nobody to talk to. Now I'm at a point in my life where I've got something to lose. I'm angry at myself for not being able to change. I feel lifeless. My job is a diminishing return. There's no upside. I feel alone. I'm not sure where I'm going. Somebody else is controlling all of my time, including during dinner and at lines and Disney World. But I feel obligated to provide. I mean, and the list goes on. These are the symptoms. These are the symptoms of normal 40. These are the things that you don't want and you can't figure out why you've got them.
[00:46:00] So what do I tell that person? Dude, listen nobody will show up and fix this for you. And as much as that sucks. It is true. If you're feeling any of these feelings and you want them to go away. Nobody shows up to fix them for you. They're on you. This is the point in life we're in. You know, you've become who you are today. And this one's on you. Okay, great. It's on you. Two you can do it. You are way more ready than you give yourself credit for. Yep. It'll suck. Yes, there's some awkward conversations. Yeah, you're probably not even in sync with your spouse or your kids. Yeah, you probably have to think about a financial gap. What's that going to look like? I mean, you can do those things. That stuff is easier. Mechanically, physically, mentally, not emotionally, but it's easier than probably the job you're going to do today and the people you've got to lead and all the baggage that you're going to have to carry for them. I mean, it's going to be easier to actually sit down and say, well, here's how I could do it. I could plan for the next six months, save and that'll give me three months runway to do X, Y, Z. You have got to put together the plan and it's on you to do it. And I'll say it one more time, Dude, you're ready. I mean, seriously, you're ready. The only person who thinks you're not ready, you. That's it. That is it. And it feels that way because image. What are other people going to say when you actually do it?
Adam: [00:47:59] Those are really powerful, powerful words, Lon. And I think it's probably best maybe we end on that. And for someone who's out there right now, just know that the normal 40 group is designed to help you make sure you're ready. To help you go through that process. Lon, besides this podcast, where else can people connect with you, where else can people learn more about the normal 40 movement and the process that you've designed?
Lon: [00:48:22] So, look, first, if you've listened to this podcast and everybody says this and I didn't appreciate it really fully until Adam, you've launched this podcast, and that is when you comment or like or send a link to someone and say, Hey, listen to this, []. It really helps, man. It's a powerful way to just connect with more people who need it. You, the listener, actually get to provide maybe a life changing tool for the cost of an email. And, you know, maybe it feels vulnerable. But my contention is every time I did something vulnerable, the rewards I got for it, even though I thought they could be really negative, the vulnerability you always think about all the negative things that can happen only in those moments of vulnerability. Only in those moments did something positive come out of it.
[00:49:11] So just know that maybe being a little bit vulnerable in sharing this in a post, sharing it in an email, sharing it on LinkedIn is helpful to us because it's going to be helpful to other dudes. That is our mission. So that's number one. Obviously, find us here, keep finding us here. We're going to keep doing this. Two on LinkedIn. That's where I spend a lot of my time and I have a private group on LinkedIn, Normal 40 group. Adam, that you referenced earlier, and that's an active group. It is really coming alive. It has been. When I launched that group, Adam in February, I thought, man, if I can get 100 dudes, maybe 200 dudes in there this year, I'll be on my way to 1000 dudes. I mean, I'll be getting there and we can use this platform as a place for us to communicate in a place that's protected. Where only the people in the group can see who's in the group and hear what we're saying and connect with one another who are in the same place on this journey. And as of today, I've got over 1900 dudes in there.
Adam: [00:50:11] Nice
Lon: [00:50:11] And they're spectacular. So come in, you're invited. You have to be let in. The vetting process is astonishingly simple, but you got to ask. I don't just offer it. So come in and ask and then get involved. And the third thing I want to say, and this is really important, I'm going to kick off in the next few weeks, a few different options, a few different groups on my website, normal40.com, and that is going to be three different offerings, paid offerings, low cost, medium cost and higher costs. Higher cost is one on one. It's this, it's this one on one with dudes and then lower costs where there might be 100 of us on a call like this. Doing office hours. But we're all together and I'm being the lookout for that and because it is going to be the type of conversation that can change lives.
Adam: [00:51:03] Again, make sure you bookmark normal40.com the website. If you're listening to us on a podcast player for the first time, hit that subscribe button. That way, any time that we drop one of these episodes, you'll get that in your feed automatically. And feel free to share it with a friend or two as well, because we're going to keep showing up here and we're going to keep being here. We're going to keep the light on here. Lon always talks about being a lantern. Our lights will be on. We will be here waiting for you to join us. So keep tuning in, keep showing up, keep being curious. And we will see you on the next page. Until then, this is normal 40 podcast.
