Normal 40: The Podcast
Episode 4: The Fear
Lon: [00:00:00] Hi, this is Lon Stroschein and congratulations on finding the Normal 40 podcast. If you found me, well it wasn't by accident. This just might be the first day of the rest of your life. And I'd be honored if you join me on my journey or better let me join you on yours. Dude, if you're here, then it's clear we're going to be good for one another. And let's face it, the price is right for both of us. I'm going to see you on the next page boss.
Adam: [00:00:48] Hello. Welcome back to Normal 40, the podcast. My name is Adam. I am your copilot today. Happy to be joined by a good friend of the show in fact, the reason for the show. He's your lead pilot. He's a dude you need to know. He's also the founder of the Normal 40 Movement. His name is Mr. Lon Stroschein. And Lon, before we get rip in here today on this episode, how are you feeling, my friend? How's the day treating you so far?
Lon: [00:01:14] Man, it's been a really good day and a really actually spectacular week. So I'm feeling primed and ready, man. I think this is a great topic and I can't wait to get into it.
Adam: [00:01:25] And we're going to touch back on the feelings thing. I know if you've listened to previous episodes of the Pod, and we appreciate you for doing that. You've recognized we've been talking a little bit about feelings, not the most easy topic, I think to discuss. But the feedback we've gotten through the first couple of episodes has been tremendous so we're going to keep on that theme and we'll tackle a heavy one today. But one of the things I love most about what you do with Normal 40 is your ability to bring people together, your ability to create groups of individuals who are all striving in the same direction. And it isn't just one person helping one person, it's a bunch of people helping out. And you talk a lot about showing up. And if you just listen to the intro to this episode, you may recognize something a little different than you've seen or heard in previous episodes. And it's a really interesting storyline. And I'd love for you just to take a few quick minutes and kind of share a little bit about the musical accompaniment you just heard as you intrude yourself into the show today.
Lon: [00:02:21] Oh man, I'm so glad you brought this up. So look, this whole podcast is for you. I mean, it's for the listeners. And if it isn't helping people, you and I are wasting our time, Adam. And we know that so I issued a call to the Normal 40 group and I just said, Hey, look, I'm interested in somebody putting together some music as bumper music for the podcast. And I got reached out to by Damien Boudreau who is a classically trained jazz guitarist, and he's like, How's this? And he sent this clip and I'm like, That's pretty badass, man. So we're like, [inaudible] this day. So Damian, thanks, man for bringing it. And this is what I'm talking about an organic podcast built by and for [] to show up here.
Adam: [00:03:18] Yeah, it's a great track and I think it really leads off the show very well. I think it captures the vibe of the show and again, we're open to any and all ideas. Make sure you feel free to message myself or Lon. If you have ideas, something you think you can bring to the table. To Lon's point, this is your show. We get a chance to be the the voices in the faces for you and of you, but make sure you reach out to us if there's something that you think we can work on or we can continue to add in. But let's talk about today's topic. And it's a meaty topic and it's something that maybe is apropos. We were recording this in real time a few weeks before Halloween. And one of the themes of Halloween obviously is fear. And it's a major emotion. We do a very cartoonish job in the Halloween sector of creating and augmenting fear for individuals. But fear in some respects is certainly no joking matter. It's not necessarily a fun matter. And it sounds like it's one of the key items that people wrestle with. One of the key feelings people wrestle with as they think about making this transition, inspiring themselves and others to make a change for the second half story. So I want to dive into fear a little bit today with you, because I imagine you hear that a bunch. But before we get into stories, I actually want to start very simplistically with you. In your conversations with individuals and I know your goal is to talk to 1000 people and you're talking to hundreds and hundreds a day. What does fear mean? What are the most common forms of fear that manifest themselves throughout the conversations that you've had a chance to have over the last several months?
Lon: [00:04:50] It comes in about 100 different packages in shapes and sizes and it kind of comes from everywhere. So I hear dudes come to me and they don't even know it's a problem. They just know it's a feeling. It's this gut level feeling where they don't feel quite like they used to just a few years ago and they don't know how to get it back. By the time we get talking and we get into what their story is and where they want to go, ultimately we end up or I get asked that question something along the lines of, I can't leave right now because I've got bills to pay, I've got a family to care for. And it seems irresponsible for me to to leave and to think about leaving and think about chasing my second half story. And the thought of not having income would be unsettling. It would be very scary. And then they make an assumption. And it doesn't matter if you're an executive who has been making hundreds of thousands of dollars or an individual who's been making tens of thousands of dollars. You think whoever is not you, has it easier.
[00:06:05] If you're an executive who's been making hundreds of thousands of dollars, you think the person who was had spent the last four or five, six years making 50,000, 60,000 dollars a year has it easier because the trade isn't as big. But if you're the person making 50, 60,000 dollars a year, you look at the other person who's going to walk away from a salary of hundreds of thousand dollars, think well they had it easier because they made money that whole time. The whole point is this. When you think about making a change, it's scary. And it's scary because it's your change to make. And I get it. Your change is harder than somebody else's because it's yours and it's scary. And so that's the thing we keep coming back to again and again in every one of these conversations.
Adam: [00:06:57] The fears you hear about and I'm asking you to maybe give me some percentages here. How much of that fear do you think is real fear, meaning imminent fear? If do X, Y is going to happen to me pretty quickly. And how much do you think is perceived fear? You assume this might happen. You think this might happen. How often do you see those two things and how do they weave themselves differently in conversations you have?
Lon: [00:07:22] Such a good question. So let's just talk about fear for a second. And fear, what is it? Right. What is it? We feel it. We know it. And certainly in the context of Halloween, it all makes sense. It's fear, you know, things that scare you. But fear in this context, now I'm talking to the individual who's somewhere between 35 and 55. They're living and have lived a really good life. They've done things that they're proud of and they've got this feeling now that they can't quite articulate. And so that's the person I'm channeling. And I want to talk about fear. What is fear? It's an unpleasant emotion caused by someone or something. All right. So let's think about that. Fear is an unpleasant emotion. That's what we're talking about here, Adam, emotions. And it's an emotion that's driven by someone or something we perceive to be dangerous or to cause pain. Okay, so now back to your question. Is it perceived or real? I don't know. But we've convinced ourselves it's real. Whether it's real or not, is secondary to the fact that we believe that we've identified something or someone who has put fear in us. And it's driving this unpleasant emotion. And for me, I view fear a little bit differently. It is those things. It is an unpleasant emotion. No doubt about it. It's an unpleasant emotion. And it sucks because it's right up there with anxiety and it's up there with all those gross, yucky terms that we don't like to talk about.
[00:09:08] But fear to me, is just a loss of control. Fear to me is the moment you've given someone or something the ability to have control over how you fear or have an opinion perceived or actual, over how something like your future will transpire. We've given it away. We've given up control. We've given up our freedom. We've given up our ability to have our influence. We've given it to someone or something. And that's generating fear and it's keeping us where we are. And at the end the conversations are around, what is it? Put a name on it and put a person's name on it if it's a person. Put a company name on it if it's a company. Put a name on what it is so that we can deal with it. Because once you name it, once you put a name on what it is that you're scared of, you can do things to get around it. And then what do you do? You kind of get some control back and that's what you really want.
Adam: [00:10:14] Well, it's interesting, though, how much of the fear do you think is just in someone's own mind? It's not a person. It's not a thing. It's in their own mind. It's an internal fear. It's an internal voice. So in reality, they fears themselves. Right. How do you get control back over yourself, and especially as you're thinking about some of these deeper, larger, bigger picture items that represent potentially your second half story?
Lon: [00:10:39] Yeah, man. Fear is real. And it really can stop you from chasing your dreams, from doing the things you want to do, the things that you know you want to do next. They can stop you in your tracks from doing them. And so I ask people all the time, what do you need to get that back? And what would it look like if you did? What if that person you're fearful of or that situation you're fearful of? If they're in your mind, if you can name them. And that's why it's so important to name them. If you can name them, you can deal with them. If it's just this, I don't know if this is the right time, that's different. That's a whole different set of fear. You've got to go. What you're probably missing out on there is clarity. And how do you get clarity? If you can't name what it is that's stopping you and you can't name what it is you're fearful of, then what you don't have yet is clarity on who does you want to become or what you're being called to do next. And without that, you can't muster the courage to stomp out the fear that's all around you. So you just kind of exist. You live another yesterday. And so one of the things that we identify early through one on one is which of these are they really? Can you really name it? Can you put a name on it? Well, if so, we can deal with that. Or is it just stagnation? Is it just, you're not sure what it is? Usually that is the result of unclarity on what it is you're afraid of and who it is you really want to be next.
Adam: [00:12:31] So if I heard this, so in your experience, if someone comes to you and says, Lon, I want to make this change. I want to make the second half of my story different. I want to do something different. I have this urge. I have these feelings, right? And you sit down and you get to the conversation and then the F word pops up. Not that F word. The other one fear pops up and they start talking about their fears. And then they say to themselves, Well, I've got these fears, Lon, so I'm just not ready because I have this fear. I'm not ready to take that leap. I'm not ready to write that second half story. Is that true? Is that accurate? Do you do you have all your fears figured out or identified or resolved in order to move forward? Is that a roadblock? Is that a stopping point for somebody if they just say, hey, I know if this fear is and I don't know how to get past it because it's a big one, whatever it is to them. And I think the thing I do want to mention quickly is you talk about fears, and I don't want to mention specific fears Lon because I think you said this perfectly, whatever you're afraid of is important to you. It may be different for me. I may look at your fear and say, wow, that's really small and inconsequential. Or I may look at your fear and say, Wow, that's a big one. Yeah, I don't know how you get over that. I don't think it's relative to measure someone's fear, but the thing is it's a fear, right? So if someone has it, does that mean they're not ready to move forward? Should they just pause and stop and figure that out? Or can you still charge ahead and become who you want to be, even if you have that fear still lingering, still named in your mind, but not something that you can solve for?
Lon: [00:13:57] Yeah. Look, I think you're going to have fear all the way through the process. Every step of the way through the process, you're going to feel some level of fear. Some fear you'll be able to name by a person or a thing. Some fear you'll be unable to articulate what it is. But there'll be elements of fear because it's a transition. Transitions are scary. They are laden with fear. Why? Because it is synonymous with confidence. And confidence and fear are brothers, but they're different. One of the reasons you're going to show up tomorrow to a job you hate working for people you don't trust doing things that aren't important. If that's you, is that you're confident the job is there. You're confident you survived yesterday and the day before and you're confident you can survive another day because you survived yesterday. And at the same time, you can be fearful of the fact that you don't like your boss. You can be fearful of the fact you're going to burn another day and you can be fearful of the fact that you can't quit because you've got too many people depending on you. And so they're related but different. So I think you go through this whole thing with some level of fear. And what you're looking for is confidence. What you think, Boy, if I was just confident enough. I've got this job. And even if you love it. Let's take me, I love my job. I love the company. I love the people I work with. And for me. I was looking for confidence. I wasn't fearful of retribution from my company. That wasn't my fear. I was just hoping that I would generate confidence.
Lon: [00:15:44] And confidence is just the state of feeling certain. I wanted the certainty of knowing that if I left, I'd be okay. And that just doesn't happen. That guarantee doesn't exist. At least it didn't for me, man. And so I think if you wait for your fear to leave and you wait to be confident enough to notice, you've got the certainty to be safe. You better be prepared to wait again and again. You better embrace the fact that you're going to live a whole bunch more yesterdays because that's what you're going to have. So really what you need is courage. You need this moment of courage. And courage and confidence are different. Courage is the ability to do something frightening. Confidence is the inability to do something until you're certain. So, look I think the way to get confidence is to exhibit your courage. Do something courageous, even if it's tiny. Don't quit your job. That's not step one. Step one isn't quitting your job. Step one is do something small that feels courageous. That's frightening. And over time, when you layer those up, when you layer one on top of two, on top of three, on top of four, over time you build confidence in where you're going. You build confidence in the fact that this is indeed the direction you want to go and you reduce, you drive down your fear. Because you're getting so excited, it drives up your enthusiasm for the path you're on. And what you need is the courage to overcome your fear.
Adam: [00:17:34] Well, let's be honest for a second, Lon. We're all dudes here, right? One thing dudes don't want to do is, we don't want to talk about stuff. I don't want to go to my neighbor and say, Hey, man, let me tell you what I'm afraid of or hey spouse or hey significant other, here's my biggest fear. But in reality, what we need to do is part of what you're sharing with the group here is that if you're willing to vocalize, understand and address your fear, those are the first little steps you can take to overcome the fear. But you and I both know there are dudes out there right now driving in their car. They pulled over a side of the road in their Kia Optima and they're like, I'm not telling anybody this ever. This is not something I'm willing to share. How important is it for them to be able to stop and talk to somebody and say to somebody, be it a friend, a colleague, a coworker or a spouse, maybe even it's you Lon on a call or a meeting to say, Lon, I'm afraid of this. How important is it to actually say those words out loud?
Lon: [00:18:28] Oh man, it's super important, but I think it's almost impossible to start there. As much as I'd love to sit here and say, Yeah, call a friend and take him to coffee and tell him what you're thinking about leaving your job to chase a dream, but you're not sure how it's going to play out at home. Yeah, you should do that. But I don't expect that people can. I mean, that's really hard. I didn't. I waited years. I waited years to have that conversation. And it started with my wife. And it was wonderful. My regret is I wish I'd had the courage to start those conversations earlier. So what do you do? It's not a confessional. You're not going to the world believing you have to confess something. But you do have to show up a little bit curious and you have to start to explore what it is you're feeling? What it is you want to be? You've got to ask all those cheesy, stupid questions that you've heard speakers talk about forever, but you have to explore who it is, you want to be? What are the things that make you happy? What are the things that make you joyful? And if you can't start there, start with the list that shit you hate. You should be able to do that. Start with the stuff that you don't want to tolerate anymore. Do that. Start with that, but start the conversation with yourself. Even that is going to start to build courage.
Lon: [00:20:01] Here's one of the things I've learned. When I talk to dudes, I ask the same series of questions in our ramble. And I told you that I talk about the first several hours of conversation as I ramble. We just weave here and there, and I ask them eventually, I get to the question. I said, So dude, you've told me about how you're feeling. You've told me about your job. You've told me about what you love. You've told me about what you hated. What do you want? And almost every time I ask that question Adam, I get silence. This pause and the furrowed eyebrows. Sometimes they kick back in their chair and then they say, I have no idea. I have no idea what I want. I asked that question one time to a dude. I said, What do you want? And he said, What do you mean? He couldn't think for a moment what he wanted for himself.
Lon: [00:21:06] So like, this is really important, and I think we need to dwell here for just a second. The way we go through lives. There again, I'm channeling the dude who's somewhere between 35 and 55, made money, done well, and they're at this place where they're willing to trade what they've got and they don't know what to trade it for. And they're feeling awkward, and they don't know who to talk to. And the most interesting thing is to get where they are, they've never stopped to think about what they want. They've never had to ask the question of themselves, what do they want? They think they know what their wife wants, and it's what they agreed to 15 years ago. You know, it was the contract of 2008 that they verbally communicated with one another. A husband and wife on what each person's responsibility be and that is one of the spouses is going to go to work and claw and grind and be motivated professionally and be the provider. And in most cases, the people who come to me, the other one isn't doing that. They're the ones who are sacrificing just as much, but differently. They're the ones sacrificing their career to stay home, to take care of the family, to do all the hard work, the thankless important hard work of staying home.
Lon: [00:22:28] And when that day starts, the first child comes into the mix. There's an unwritten agreement that says usually the husband's going to go climb, scratch, claw, climb, and the wife is going to stay home. And the husband assumes that for a period of time now, going on 15 years that that contract is still the right contract. That contract is still the contract he's operating under that what she, his spouse wants is for him to grow and climb and put in the hours and put in the travel and make more money and provide the nice car and live in a nicer house. But the reality is, he's never gone back and asked if that contract is still valid. If that's still what she wants. And now he's starting to think, well, maybe this isn't what I want, but I can't go back and redo that contract. She's got expectations. So what do you do? You keep grinding it out. This is a long way of saying. At some point you've got to figure out. Every dude's wired differently, but you've got to find someone, some way, a book, a journal, a coach, a friend, or your spouse to have that open and honest conversation about that starts with, I'm not as happy as I used to be and I'm not sure why.
Adam: [00:23:50] Is fear a negative thing? I mean, in some respects, right? You think about what fear could mean to somebody. It could cause them to to make a change. It could cause them to be on the "lookout for something." Right. I think we think about fear, we've been talking it so far in that scared negative context. I don't know what's going to happen or I can't do this because of whatever. But is fear intrinsically a negative thing in your opinion? Aren't there positive traits that you try to point out to people as they tell you their fears to help them understand? Maybe this isn't your body's way of saying don't do this. Maybe this is your mind's way of saying you have to do this. How do you differentiate between those two?
Lon: [00:24:29] Yeah. So is fear negative? Not always, man. I think fear is essential. I think we've all got it. There's fear in imposter syndrome. Fear comes in all shapes and sizes. I think fear is essential. I don't think it's all bad. I think fear that you don't deal with is the exact thing that eventually drives anxiety. You over time will become very uncomfortable with what it is you've gotten comfortable with. And that unpleasant emotion over time becomes a rut that you're stuck in. And that's where it gets really, really, really dangerous. When you're afraid to articulate how you feel to your boss. When you're afraid to articulate that you're no longer happy at work to your spouse, that fear becomes a rut, and you just sink deeper and deeper and deeper into it. Now, that's the negative, but the positive side of fear. Look, I wouldn't have left my company without fear. I wouldn't have left if I and my fear there was, what if I stayed too long? My fear was, what if I never go live the life and chase the dream that I know I have inside of me? What if I never go figure out what I was capable of being? My fear was I will regret not taking the chance. That is a super healthy, wonderful, unpleasant emotion. Fear, it's that unpleasant emotion that I used as a tool to spring forward. But I'd be lying to you if I said once I felt fear, I made the change. No, I felt fear for a long time, but it was ultimately fear. And my willingness to deal with it that said, my time, my work here is done. And it's time for me to go figure out and put in the work and use all the skills, use all I've become over the last 30 years to figure out and put to work who it is I'm capable of being.
Adam: [00:26:50] I want to stay on that for a second because I want to make sure people and maybe I want to make sure I understood you correctly. I think there isn't this aha moment, right? Like this one day where you wake up and all of a sudden like a Hollywood production, the sun and the moon and the stars align and this big flash of light comes and you go, Oh my goodness, this is it for me. If what I heard you just tell everybody was this was a process for you. You felt the fear. You squelch it. It came up a little bit again. You brushed it off. You felt it a third time. All right. I'm going to worry about that later. But at some point in time, you evolve to a space where you say, okay, I'm ready to deal with that fear. But I think people have maybe this misperception that they're going to look out the window and there's going to be a giant sign that says, this is your time. And I think that's just some Pollyanna Hollywood magic ending kind of stuff. How much do you try to instill in people the process of going through these things, the process of starting small and building yourself up to that point in time? Because I can't imagine that people are very patient in these situations, but that almost feels like that's the name of the game here, right? Be patient, listen to yourself, understand yourself, and wait until your time is right. Right until that opportunity is right for you versus hoping that you're going to find their seat in the sky one day.
Lon: [00:28:06] Yeah. So you said really three super important things. One, this doesn't happen overnight. The only way it happens overnight is if the emotion of a moment becomes so great that you just say, screw it and you walk out and that happens. That can be the flash. It won't feel like a flash. Most likely, especially leading up to that. It might feel great as you're walking out, might not. But it's not a flash. I'll say this, there is a process. It's a process I went through. It's a process I understand. It's a process I teach and it's a process that takes time. It took me to diagnose and take myself through it. It took about four years. I tell most people when they come to me, you better plan on at least six months because it's going to take several months for you to figure yourself out, let alone before we can actually get to who you want to be. I mean, that's great, but it's going to take six months and it's going to be a process. And you're going to learn so much about yourself in those six months. Especially in the first three months, it's kind of rearward facing. And in the next three months, it's very much forward facing. But you're going to learn a ton about yourself in there.
Lon: [00:29:28] But I will say this for me, there was a moment after I went through a whole bunch of process. And after I did a whole bunch of exploring, my process boils down into four things. It's exploring. It's the ramble. It's the months you go and just really exploring who you are and getting clarity on that. What are the hardest things you do? One of the hardest things so crazy, but one of the hardest things to do is to know without excuse who it is you are and to put it into words. I mean, it is one of the hardest things to do and most don't do it. Yeah, I bet there's less than single digit percentage of the people listening to this podcast can write down who they are, their moral values and they've rehearsed it. It's there. They know who they are and then even a smaller percentage have the courage to be that person.
Lon: [00:30:28] Think about that. To know who you are and have the courage to stand in it. It's the hardest thing. It is the single hardest thing I've done on this earth to do the hard work of knowing who I was. And that started by knowing who I no longer wanted to be. That's where it started. I didn't know who I was. I just knew I no longer wanted to be the person I was becoming. It does not mean I was becoming a bad person. It does not mean I regret one hour of that time on that path. It just means that I came to this point where I realized I didn't want to be that person anymore. That is that aha moment. And just listen, give yourself permission to have that moment. Give yourself the permission right now if you can to let go of thinking that you have to be the person you were yesterday. You don't. And you don't have to be the person you're capable of being starting tomorrow. You don't. You just have to acknowledge that you just pivoted. And that is a freeing moment. It's like, okay, okay, okay, maybe I don't want to be here in five years. Maybe I don't want to be here in two years. Maybe I don't want to be here in two months. But now you've confessed. There's a confession out there to yourself at this point.
[00:31:59] And once you can feel it, now we go back to the conversations. Now you've got something to talk to your wife about. Hey, I'm thinking about this or a friend, hey, have you ever thought about this or a coach, hey, I just started thinking about this. Can you help me? I'm willing to pay you. By the way, I'm willing to pay you a few thousands of dollars to help me be who I want to become. Seems like a reasonable trade. These are the things. That's where it starts. That's the first lightning moment. Then later in the process, you get to this point where you've got some clarity on who it is you want to become. And now you're at this point where you've got a choice to make. You've actually [inaudible] to make. You've got the path you're on and the person you've become on the road to the person you are becoming. And you've got this Plan B. You've got this optionality. You've got this other thing. And it's scary and it's full and it's exciting and it's different. And you built it. It's yours. It's what you want. It's all these things.
[00:33:00] It's all they want and it's in your words. And it's not already built. And it's not just there for the taking. It requires a risk and it requires all these things. But now you've got a trade. You've got a decision to make. You're going to continue down the path you were on yesterday. Are you going to start down a path you've got tomorrow? And you can start doing that even in cadence by doing experiments on, do I still like it? Do I still like it? Do I still like it? And by the way, you're not doing it during your work hours. These are just a few hours a month that you're doing that. So you go through that process and then something crazy happens. And the biggest thing for me was when the fear melted away from me. When I was holding that trade and you guys can't see me. But in one hand, I want you to envision I'm holding up a fist. And that's the path I'm on. That's the public company executive path I'm on. And it was an option for me to continue down that path. And the other one was uncertainty. It was I don't have a resume, I don't have a Rolodex, I don't have a $100 million in the bank. I'm not independently wealthy, but it's exciting and I am drawn to it. And I had a decision to make. And then it dawned on me that in that moment, the thing I needed to let go was the person I used to be.
[00:34:29] And I got to use the person I was in this day to pursue who it is I want it to be. And then the trade became this. And the moment in my life when I felt the lightest is when the words maybe my work here is done, came out of my mouth. And I said them to my wife. We're sitting in this little bar in Minneapolis and the words, maybe my work here is done and that's what I need to do. I need to be done there and start my second half story. And once that came out of my mouth, I became willing to talk about it. I became willing to tell others about it, and I became who I was capable of being. I didn't know. That's not true. I set down the path of figuring out how I was going to become who I was capable of being. And in that moment probably of any time in my whole life was the most freeing moment I've had as a leader.
Adam: [00:35:34] Did you know that at the time? As that emotion hit you, did you feel it to say that this is it, this is the moment?
Lon: [00:35:42] I tell you this, in the moment I said the words, maybe my work here is done. I knew it. Everything [] me. Now, here's the thing. I did years of work to get to that. That wasn't just a Oh, good conversation, here we go. That was years of work. That was years of exploring step number one in my process. That was years of learning and investing. I spent a lot of money. I spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out who I was capable of being and what I wanted. It took a long time. What do I want, man? What do I want? I can tell you what I want now. And then it took the third step in the process is testing. Test the thesis. I became a coach. I took on some clients. This is what I really want. And even in coaching, I learned that I can be an executive coach and a damn good one. But I don't know that that is even the type of coaching I want. If your second story is to be a public company executive, then that's what I want. I want to help people figure out who they're capable of being and then chase it. And then the fourth step is making the trade and helping you figure out how you want to make the trade. Those are the four steps, and it took me years to get through all the way through those steps. But there are moments of realization through there that are just awesome.
Adam: [00:37:03] Well, yeah, I want to get back to that because you said something earlier about the small steps along the way, and I think that's important to allow yourself the opportunity, to feel those small wins as they come in. And I'll give you a quick example If I can Lon from our own journey together. I mentioned this on a few other shows, a lot of your posts that sort of resonate with me, got my mind working around what am I doing here? What am I feeling? What's happening? Kind of the very same things that you talked about. Am I changing who I thought I was? And on a whim I sent you an email and start a conversation. And I sent you a note that said, Let's start a podcast. And that was my fear moment, because you could have written back to me and said, Not interested, don't have any idea, don't have any time for that. Right. You wrote back and said, Let's talk. And that was a small step as I look back at it now and me overcoming that first fear of saying, am I changing? Should I think about other things? Are there other avenues for me? And I look back in that moment now, what, four or five episodes into this? And that was my fear moment and it was a small win and there's more to come, but celebrate that small one. Celebrate those small moments where you step up to the fear again, as small or as minor, as minuscule you think it is, and you overcome it. Maybe you send that email to that person you've been meaning to talk to you. Maybe you should get that text message you want to send. Maybe you read that book that you've been putting off reading. Maybe as you look at a coach that you haven't ever looked at but celebrate those small wins along the way, man, Because that's the fun part of the journey.
[00:38:31] I always think of it this way, I think about a timeline. You're the old history book timeline where 1800s and it goes all the way to 1900s and there's little dots along the way. I think back to my life and I think through I can't wait to write my timeline. I can't wait to write in 2021. I did this in 2020, I did this. And that's part of how I think about my journey is, man whenever it's over and I don't know when that is, and maybe your journey is not over a lot at this point, right? I don't know if we can ever say that, but I can't wait to write that timeline, man. Or I can't wait to go back and read it, because I think that's going to be the pinnacle of saying I can respect and understand where I've been and where I am now.
Lon: [00:39:08] Oh, man, I love that. You just articulated it beautifully in your own story that I'm getting to be a part of. You contacted me at a moment when you were curious. You're showing up curious, trying to figure out. I'm asking. But my guess is you're trying to figure out a whole bunch of things. You're curious about what you're feeling. You're curious with all the success you've had and you've had a ton, why you couldn't feel as successful as you were and why you couldn't feel as successful as you felt a few years ago? And what were you doing? You were exploring and you had to channel what felt like this crazy amount of courage you had to channel. You weren't confident I was going to say yes. That's what I'm telling you, [] summons the courage to send an email to pitch to a dude you've never met. Your vision, your curiosity over whether or not this would make a good podcast. And then you had to stand in it. You had to see what was going to come back. And what came back was, Let's talk. And that's what happened. And so that's what you did. You were exploring. You were curious. You exhibited courage and you tried something that has cost you some time.
[00:40:34] That's the next step. Learning and investing. It's cost you some time. Maybe you've spent some dollars on this, I don't know. But my whole point is you're in step two already in this process. And it's the learning and investing. You might decide and I hope not. You might decide and if you [] was like, Hey, man, I'm out. Hey, it was a good run, dude, your co-pilot got a better gig. But my whole point is and by the way, let me just say, if that is it, dude, I get it because I'll be your co-pilot any day, boss man. So you're just working the exact process that every dude I talk to goes through. They usually find me when they just need a beacon. They need a lander. They need someone to pull their eyes off the path they're on and get them looking at something else so they can dream for a moment about maybe what they want. Dudes don't allow themselves to dream about what it is they want.
Adam: [00:41:39] Let's talk about when you think of fear, there's always that old adage, overcome your fears. Face your fears. Right. But I want to talk about the difference between quieting a fear and overcoming a fear, because I think there's probably things you can do to quiet the noise, right? To quiet the fear for a little bit. But in reality, did you really overcome the fear? And in your opinion, do you need to overcome some of these fears to start on your second half journey? How do you think about the quieting of a fear versus overcoming and whether overcoming is even the goal or should be the goal as you think about your particular fear?
Lon: [00:42:18] I'll go back to something I said earlier, and that is your fear is not going to go away, man. Your fear in whatever you ultimately decide to do and whatever life you're living in, five years from now, you're going to have fear. And what you've got to do is channel your courage. I believe that is the only way that you actually build this muscle of how it is you deal with fear and usually almost in every context, it comes down to a really awkward conversation that you're avoiding. I'll tell you, hundreds of hours and hundreds of clients, I would bet that 75 or 80% of them, by the time we get down to it, I've identified a single person. And a single conversation that hasn't yet happened. And that avoidance just gives fear power. It just grows and grows and grows. So what do you do? You've got to summon some courage. You've got to take that back. The only way over the mountain of fear is the climate and your climate with courage. And yet, is it going to suck? [inaudible] I'm not going to tell you it's not going to suck. It's going to suck. It is going to suck, man. It is going to suck. But it's not going to suck as much as another year of avoiding a conversation you wish you'd had already a year ago. You got a summons that courage, and then you'll find a new fear. But so what? Change is your problem. Your problems never go away, you just change them. So trade your problems. Trade this fear for the next one. But find a way through it or over it and live with that new set of problems you've got.
Adam: [00:44:19] You're in such a unique spot because you get an opportunity to talk to dudes sometimes in the very first part of their journey, and then sometimes at the very last part of their journey. And to your point, that journey never really stops. I think that's another myth. Like you don't just get there and go, Aha, I'm done, see you all later and I'm checking out. Like it doesn't just stop. You continue to evolve, but you have that awesome, awesome opportunity to see that from the beginning and then see that from the ending perspective, at least that version of the ending. What do people say to you most? Is there more fear about doing what it is I think I want to do or fear staying where I am and not ever doing that thing? Where do you see more of the fear as you think about it on both ends of that spectrum?
Lon: [00:44:59] Well, this is the positive and negative of fear. I use that fear. I talk about the four ways I show up to every conversation. I know within the first 10 minutes that I need to show up as a certain character and I'll use that. It's me every time. It's this guy. But I'll know what is needed and it's these four. It's the guide, the guard, the lantern and the key. And usually by the time I show up on LinkedIn, I show up in my writing, I show up on this podcast as a lantern. I show up as, Hey, listen to this. I think I've got you figured out. And I at least can understand where you're at. And so just know that there's hope for you. That's one, the lantern. Then I show up as a guide. Let's get on a phone call. Let's figure this out. And it's the quintessential traditional sense of the word, guide. I'm going to help you figure out what is the next step. We might not figure out. We sure as shit won't figure out in the first hour what your second half story is. But we might figure out, and I would suggest that we will figure out what's the next step, man? What's the tiny little next step? What's that one degree of difference that might be the first degree in a 180 change. Let's figure that out and let's just start there. Those are the baby steps. That's a process.
[00:46:19] The third way I show up is as a guard. And the last one is a key. But I want to talk about the guard. And the guard is channeling one of the levels of fear. The guard shows up to say, Hey, man, if you're not happy now, do you think you're going to be happy in five years if you don't make a change? And do you think you'll be happy in 10 years when you think you're going to grind it out another 10 years and retire? Are you sure that's the life you want to live? And if you do, will you regret never trying? You regret never giving whatever is in your second half story a shot? Will you regret never taking a chance on yourself? Will you regret that? And don't do that. Don't put yourself through that regret. That's the guard. That's how I use risk in that scenario. And then the other side of risk is to embrace it as an adventure and the risk of of getting it right. What if you take this risk and you get it right? What if you take this risk and you help 1000 dudes live their second half story? In my case and what if I get it wrong and I help three. Okay, I won't regret it. I'll never get 10 years down the line and say, Boy, I wish I never helped those guys, just didn't really do it for me. It's impossible. So fear, that's how you channel both sides of fear in the process. And both can be helpful. And fear can you work as a sail and it can work as an anchor, but you have to pivot them at some point in the process.
Adam: [00:48:04] Again such great insight Lon from you on that topic of fear. I think my key takeaway is the neutralizer if you will. That's my word I'll use, the neutralizer a fierce courage. Right. Continue to exhibit courage to neutralize that fear, such great powerful message. And I know I appreciate. I'm sure everybody out there listening appreciate you sharing that as well. Before we wrap here, why don't you give some folks an understanding of where they can find more from you, how they can connect with you and how they can become part of the Normal 40 community?
Lon: [00:48:35] Yeah, man, I love it. So I show up here with you and thanks Adam, for continuing to show up here and do this. And you're just doing this because you're curious and you're great, dude. And you do a great job, dude. You really do. I hear it again and again and again. And we're going to switch roles here one of these days soon.
Adam: [00:48:52] We'll see. I get over that fear, we'll see if we can do that.
Lon: [00:48:57] All right. Well, I am confident that you'll summons the courage to do that. So, look you can find us here and let me say one more thing about that. I didn't realize until I had a podcast, and this is episode four, that thing they say about, Hey, Like and subscribe, it matters, actually matters. It's the only tool we have to really extend the reach. It's one of two tools, I should say, and it's a good one. So you can find us here and I hope that you continue to do. We've got some previous podcasts that we hope will be helpful if this is your first one. The second place I show up is on LinkedIn, and I show up there really, really consistently, and I usually show up as the lantern. I just explain what those four things are and I show up as the lantern. And I try to just say, Hey, look, man, if this is your time, I'm here and I know where you're at. Let's talk. And that's a sincere offer. Another place I show up inside of LinkedIn is this private community I've got that you can join. You can send me a direct message, or I usually put a link under some of my posts and say, Hey, join this private group. And there I show up as more of a guide. I provide things in there that are guide. And by the way, there's 1800 people in there. 1800 people who are feeling what you're feeling. And the only way to get in is because I let you in and the only people who can see you once you're in are the people who are in. So I don't want you to think that big LinkedIn is going to have any visibility into who's in there, they won't.
[00:50:21] So that's how I show up there. Find that also on LinkedIn. Another way is my website. My website is where you can go to book a call, free call, paid call, whichever you'd like. And it's also a place where I'm going to start a community there too. A low cost subscription based community where we're going to do events like this, live with me. And you Adam if you're willing to show up on a periodic basis at least once a month. And we're going to have real live conversations with real, live dudes who are going through all the shit that we all go through at different times. And those are all of the places where I show up normal40.com.
Adam: [00:51:02] Awesome. And again, make sure if you're following along that you're finding Lon at all those places. Bookmark that website, but also, I want to share a quick note on the pod as well. And I think Lon talked to it well. But here's what I want you to do if you can. Listen to the show. If you like what we do and only if you like what we do, tell a friend. Tell two friends. Tell somebody who hasn't heard of us before. Tell somebody who hasn't listened before and just Hey, I want you to listen to this. Send them a DM. Send them a text message. You can put the link right in there. So if you like what we do, share it to a friend. And I want you there for one reason, not because it's going to help them because it might help you. Might help you find that ally, find that person that you've been trying to talk to. You might help you bridge that gap in that relationship to get over that fear that you're looking at. So do us a favor, subscribe to the show again. Share with one friend and that would make us happy. And until the next time Lon, we'll do another one of these and the relative very near future. We want to thank everyone out there for listening, for showing up here. Thanks for being curious. You keep showing up. We'll keep showing up. We'll see you next time.
